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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:39 pm 
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TheTimeIsNow wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I think it's early.
But he does need to shake things up. Sit McCutchen for a series again. Put him back in the lineup and bat him 7th.

I think a big problem with this team is McCutchen. He's turned into a diva but isn't close to pulling his weight.


Again, what has McCutchen done this season that makes him a diva?? He is struggling to hit. That doesn't make him a diva.


It's nothing to do with his numbers, it's his attitude. It's his crying about moving to RF. It's his crying about it at the World Baseball Classic. It's his little show he put on the first night back in CF. It's his crying about the scorekeeper last season.
I think he's a clubhouse cancer. He's moving more towards the Kendall/Giles side.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:41 pm 
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"crying"

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:36 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
It's nothing to do with his numbers, it's his attitude. It's his crying about moving to RF. It's his crying about it at the World Baseball Classic. It's his little show he put on the first night back in CF. It's his crying about the scorekeeper last season.
I think he's a clubhouse cancer. He's moving more towards the Kendall/Giles side.


He's been heading down this path since his two best friends (Walker and Alvarez) were no longer on the team and I believe it's partially to blame for his play.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:49 am 
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Wow. If you think McCutchen is a club house cancer then I can't imagine what you think of the 95% of players that are probably way worse than him. Cutch has always been regarded as a phenomenal guy and teammate. Now when he is struggling, he's a diva and a clubhouse cancer. Jeez. Tough crowd.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:36 pm 
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I don't know if he is a cancer but he's done a lot of questionable things that make him look like he is being immature at times. The pounding of his chest after he made a catch in St. Louis yelling "this is my spot" was a bit much. The next series when he misplayed a ball in the outfield that cost us a game was bad on his part not bc of the drop but bc of his response to his reporter that asked him about it, mccutchen said "nobody is talking about my home run, they just want to talk about the error", again childish, take the questions and move on,especially since it is YOUR SPOT. His play is not helping at all but I do see why people are judging his actions along with his play.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:01 pm 
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If he was playing well no one would be questioning his behavior one bit. The reaction to "this is my spot" would have been overwhelmingly favorable and fans would be talking about how much they love his competitive spirit.

In general, Pittsburgh sports fans seem to be quick to turn on players when they're not playing well. Half the city was ready to run Josh Harrison out of town last year. Marc-Andre Fleury has had his ticket out of town punched by fans on multiple occasions.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:16 pm 
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I dont get it when fans attack a guys character or attitude when are struggling. They are an asshole, a cancer, bad attitude. No they are just struggling.

And as far as Hurdle. He may have wore out his welcome. I've never been a huge Hurdle guy although he did help bring this team back from the baseball graveyard and make them relevant.

The players just aren't responding to him anymore and sometimes some new blood gets them going. Hurdle was fired from the Rockies in 2009. Lead the team to the NL pennant in 2007. The 2009 Rockies after Hurdle was fired went to the post season under Jim Tracy ( the old pirates manager). No I don't him back either.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Fire Clint Hurdle. Hire AJ Burnett. Problem solved.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Hahah I'd love to see AJ coming out of the dugout to argue with umps.

Good chance he'd kill all shifts too.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:08 am 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Marc-Andre Fleury has had his ticket out of town punched by fans on multiple occasions.


As has Evgeni Malkin. At least with Flower it was semi-justified (shit, they won a Cup without him in goal!).

Any Cutch 'hate' is misplaced. Sure, he has fallen off of late, but he practically saved this franchise. It made sense to try and trade him this last offseason to avoid this very scenario, and also since it's easier to replace him (or his 'value') compared to a MAF/Geno, but otherwise this is typical unjustified yinzerism hating.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:59 pm 
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The most frustrating part of this is Hurdle is bringing 80% of this on himself. If he would just manage with some freaking common sense all the blame would be placed on Marte and Kang being suspended, Cutch being a shell of his former self, Taillon being out, and having to shuffle abunch of AAA guys into the lineup because Freese and Frazier were hurt. Be the mistakes he's making he woukd be making regardless of personnel. It's like he wants to be canned.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:24 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
The most frustrating part of this is Hurdle is bringing 80% of this on himself. If he would just manage with some freaking common sense all the blame would be placed on Marte and Kang being suspended, Cutch being a shell of his former self, Taillon being out, and having to shuffle abunch of AAA guys into the lineup because Freese and Frazier were hurt. Be the mistakes he's making he woukd be making regardless of personnel. It's like he wants to be canned.


I'm sure he thinks he's using common sense, and making the best decisions he can. And he knows a lot more than you or I do.

But that doesn't mean his decisions are always going to make sense to us, or lead to better results, compared to other moves he might have made.

I often wonder about what are his decisions, and what is coming down from above. Like the decision to put third base defense above second base defense. Is that Clint or Neal?


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:02 pm 
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I have a hard time buying that when he's signalling players like Cervelli and Mercer to steal, making defensive switches like Jaso for Bell, and continually putting Hudson in during tight games despite the fact he gives up at least 1 run 45% of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Don't you think that at least some of those decisions are being based on the analytics that the Pirates have been employing over the last 5-7 years? What I'm saying is that perhaps Hurdle isn't making "baseball decisions" as much as he is following the roadmap created by the front office? I'm neither in favor or against "moneyball," but many of us fans are traditionalists and when we see a defensive substitution that we disagree with, we see it as a lack of baseball-common-sense. Perhaps those decisions are based on some deep mathematical equation, rather than a true baseball decision.

Just sayin'. I could be wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Maybe, a little.

I don't find him doing any more or less than Leyland did while he coached.

He wants to trust a guy to play a position, expects rookies to earn that, and is careful to not crush their confidence... probably too careful.

He likes to use his full roster to ensure they stay "sharp". That his bench is depleted right now is not his fault.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Don't you think that at least some of those decisions are being based on the analytics that the Pirates have been employing over the last 5-7 years? What I'm saying is that perhaps Hurdle isn't making "baseball decisions" as much as he is following the roadmap created by the front office? I'm neither in favor or against "moneyball," but many of us fans are traditionalists and when we see a defensive substitution that we disagree with, we see it as a lack of baseball-common-sense. Perhaps those decisions are based on some deep mathematical equation, rather than a true baseball decision.

Just sayin'. I could be wrong.


If you are right, then why even have a manager?

If all the manager is now is a the facilitator of a FO's analytics and sometimes pep-talking, rah-rah cheerleader, then not only is that stupid and pointless, but Hurdle fails at that simple task.

You theory is credible, but hopefully wrong; because that would discredit this organization, as well as analytics, further.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Someone has become a bitter, bitter fan.

Must be peak rain season in Washington.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:08 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Someone has become a bitter, bitter fan.

Must be peak rain season in Washington.

ZM


Frustrated, not bitter.

And I actually moved four years ago.

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