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 Post subject: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:29 am 
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No Jung Ho? No pop in McCutchens bat? Marte and Polanco flailing at pitches? Bell certainly isnt there yet. I mean, How many runs did you think this line up was going to score? Unless Cutch and Polanco go on a tear, this will happen more than not. In game two with the Reds, Scooter Gennett hits a HR. A three run home run. Power wins games. The Pirates lack power. Small ball only works if you can pitch it.

Combine a team that will be struggling to score runs with a team that doesnt have a true number 1 starter and you have your 2017 Pittsburgh Pirates. Cole certainly isnt a clear number 1. He may not even be a 2 on the Cubs roster. Nova/Taillon......Nope. The Bullpen isnt exactly lights out. In fact its barely serviceable. Thats all the way from the 6th inning guy, to the closer.

Did someone call last year a bridge year? That someone has done a terrible disservice to this team and its fan base. Even the prospects he covets arent all that. Meadows is no where near a young Cutch. No where near a young Marte. I see him every day down here.

The more and more I watch them, the more and more they remind me of the 2008 season, where they eventually dumped Bay, Nady and Bautista before the trade deadline.

Tick tock says the clock

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:48 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
The more and more I watch them, the more and more they remind me of the 2008 season, where they eventually dumped Bay, Nady and Bautista before the trade deadline.


This team is flawed, and is designed to win a specific way, but to compare them to a middling talent pool like that isn't fair*.

These Buccos are talented; shit they're only one year removed from 98 wins and the postseason.

Losing Russell Martin, Neil Walker and Pedro Alvarez hurt, but it didn't suddenly turn this offense into a AAAA squad**. This bunch has ups and downs, highs and lows, like any other team; only their lows seem to be REALLY, and collectively, low.

This isn't a case of a post-WS/pennant chasing aging corps like when Philly hung onto Howard, Rollins and Utley too long.

The REAL problem is pitching. An offense with no ability to score runs hurts more and makes victory even less likely when the pitching is giving away runs. The 2015 Pirates won 98 games by allowing less than 600 runs thanks to tight defense and stingy pitching.

The 2017 Bucs are on pace to give up 870 runs... that isn't a formula for a winning season, much less the playoffs. So a 2008-like season is in play. Which is crazy because there is enough talent on the roster to at least hover around 82 wins.



*it could prove fair statistically, as the 2008 Bucs scored >700 runs while giving up >800. That's in play this year. Talent-wise, it's easily arguable that the 2017 Pirates have superior talent; at least in the field/in the batting lineup.

**in fact, the 2016 Pirates scored 32 MORE runs than the 98 win-2015 version despite the losses above (plus others such as A-Ram, Sean Rod, and Morse).

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:04 am 
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A comparison of those two teams offensively will prove they were not that far apart. I used full season statistics to get this comparison. 2016 stats for the current Pirates and stayed with the 2008 stats for them guys. arguably the 2007 Pirates were better statistically than the 2008 guys. Anyway.....

Catcher ---Doumitt .318/.357 - 15HR vs Cervelli .254/.377 1HR
1st Baseman --- Adam Laroche .270/.341 25 HR vs Jaso 253/353 8HR (Jaso started 4 less games than Laroche)
2nd base ---Freddy Sanchez .271/.298 9HR vs Josh Harrison .283/.311 4HR
Shortstop --- Jack Wilson .272/.312 1HR vs Jordy Mercer .256/.328 11HR
3rd ---Joey Bats .242/.325 12HR vs David Freeze .270/.352 12HR
LF --- Jason Bay .282/.375 22HR vs Greg Polanco .258/.322 22HR
CF ---Nate McClouth .276/.356 26HR vs Starling Marte .311/.362 9HR
RF --Xavier Nady .330/.383 13HR vs Andrew McCutchen .256/.336 26HR

Ironically both teams hit 153 dingers. However Gung, Joyce and Rodriguez are removed from that team, also removing 52 home runs. THATS HUGE!

Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:55 am 
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Completely objectively (statistically) there is a valid comparison.

The 08 squad had a superior IF whereas the current one has a superior OF (intangibly and statistically).

The Pitching comparison is... can we not talk about that? It's so depressing...

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
The 08 squad had a superior IF whereas the current one has a superior OF (intangibly and statistically).


I would give you that if McCutchen gets back to hitting a baseball. If not, Offensively its a wash.

Defensively no comparison. Well, provided you didnt see the game the other night in Boston.

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More spooky comparisons, you ask!

2008 was the low water mark in the 20 year stretch of lousiness. 62 wins that year. The omen that follows is telling. a 97 win Cub team won that division that year. Dominated the division.

The trade deadline moves that followed help rebuild the fragile franchise. Or at least move them in the right direction. Get your popcorn ready.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:52 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all

Oh good God, man, Maholm, et al. blew goats.

Nova would have been the #1 on that crappy staff. Kuhl would have been #1 on that shitty staff. Maholm - that team's #1 - would not start for the current Pirates.

Duke, Snell, Gorzellany?? Oh, you mean the ass-clowns who combined to give up 550 hits in 445 IP, along with 206 BB, just 280 K's, and 57 HR allowed??? Those guys??

A combined 1.70 WHIP and 5.00 FIP. Yes, that is correct, those shit-tossers combined FOR A WHIP OF 1.70 AND FIP OF 5.00.

Please, do not suggest that the 2008 Pirates staff was anything other than burnt garbage rotting in an open dumpster.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Duke, Snell, Gorzellany?? Oh, you mean the ass-clowns who combined to give up 550 hits in 445 IP, along with 206 BB, just 280 K's, and 57 HR allowed??? Those guys??


So far Glasnow is on pace to blow the 206 BB's out of the water all by himself. Snell and Gorzelanny were a year removed from not that bad. And as the Pirates current starters goes. Name 1 that breaks into the top two spots of the Cubs rotation. Name 2 that break into the top 3 of the Cubs rotation.

Cole Taillon Nova Kuhl and Glasnow are not anything to write home about. And god forbid one of them gets hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:33 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
Duke, Snell, Gorzellany?? Oh, you mean the ass-clowns who combined to give up 550 hits in 445 IP, along with 206 BB, just 280 K's, and 57 HR allowed??? Those guys??


So far Glasnow is on pace to blow the 206 BB's out of the water all by himself. Snell and Gorzelanny were a year removed from not that bad. And as the Pirates current starters goes. Name 1 that breaks into the top two spots of the Cubs rotation. Name 2 that break into the top 3 of the Cubs rotation.

Cole Taillon Nova Kuhl and Glasnow are not anything to write home about. And god forbid one of them gets hurt.


That's just silly. Freese is on pace for 40 homers. So what.

Maholm was decent. Karstens had a couple of decent years. Those other three guys sucked. The current group is way better.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:58 pm 
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If the 2017 Pirates end up mirroring the 2008 Pirates* (or the 2016 version, for that matter) it won't be because the starting pitching is as bad as it was in 2008, but rather because the back end of the staff and bullpen are bad. Less than adequate defense may play a role, too.

Honestly though, at least IMO, defensive effort tends to follow belief in both "clutch" hitting and/or "lockdown" pitching; a team is less likely to risk injury over a blooper or possible tough out, or to hustle out an IF single or stretch for a XBH if they're down in the game or don't believe that their pitching staff can hold a lead, etc.. It's a mental thing.



*that is, with a decent >700 R offense and crippling >700 R pitching staff

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:50 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:

Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all


This is why you are the worst poster here and no one takes you seriously


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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:04 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:

Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all


This is why you are the worst poster here and no one takes you seriously


Phew! That's a relief! I thought I was... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:31 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:

Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all


This is why you are the worst poster here and no one takes you seriously


Don't give away Clevelandsux trophy that easy, RTJR. He earned those votes, fair and square.

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:33 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Don't give away Clevelandsux trophy that easy, RTJR. He earned those votes, fair and square.


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:46 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:

Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all


This is why you are the worst poster here and no one takes you seriously



At least I bring a discussion. You just bring Insults. No substance. Just BS. So FUCK YOU!

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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Let's take the accusations and vulgarity down a notch, please.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:42 am 
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The Rotten One wrote:
RTJR wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:

Maholm, Duke, Snell, Gorzelanny and Karstans were not that far behind Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl and Glasnow. Not that far at all


This is why you are the worst poster here and no one takes you seriously



At least I bring a discussion. You just bring Insults. No substance. Just BS. So FUCK YOU!


I consider your posts to be zero substance windbagging BS the vast majority of the time. And you earned the criticism.


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 Post subject: Re: Dont act surprised
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:41 am 
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Alright boys.We are all Pirates fans here. If you don't like someone's posts, block them and you won't have to read them.

And please stop with the profanity. My 12 year old reads this board.

Thanks

BB

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