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 Post subject: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:03 pm 
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..............shortening his swing. Interesting piece in the PG about his working with Don Long and the changes they are working on.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
..............shortening his swing. Interesting piece in the PG about his working with Don Long and the changes they are working on.


He's dropping his hands while in his batting stance. Supposedly to cut down on the loopiness and get the bat through the zone faster. Says he made the change early in spring training and it's now just starting to feel good. We'll see.

*** Posted this before I read the PG piece. My information was gleaned off of a Sports Beat piece from last night. Pretty much the same thing though.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:11 pm 
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It certainly makes sense. His bat has probably slowed down a touch over the years and this should help in compensate. The issue is going to be can he self-correct over a long period of time. There will be a tendency to start to drift back up.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:32 am 
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Glad to see that he is not satisfied with his recent seasons. Really has had only one very good year. He has great defense, so it's good for him to work on the offensive side of his game.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Ah yes, a short compact swing..............much much better! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:51 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Ah yes, a short compact swing..............much much better! :)


You are lighting a match near an open propane tank here, BD ...

This clip of Justin Upton shows a short swing:

Image

See how he keeps the barrel in back of the hands, lets his hands take the shortest path to the baseball (a direct line, not where the hands move away from the body and the barrel of the bat begins rolling forward)?

That is what I mean by a "short swing." Anybody else who has visual evidence as to what is meant (not you, BD) is welcome to add to the discussion.

But what is not meant by a short swing is poking at the ball, or reducing bat speed.

Then again, what the hell do I care? Son has now gone full-time to pitching ... he does not even want to go the park and hit any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:33 pm 
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LOLOLOLOL...............sorry Bucfan. Off to the dark side for another one. But he is a pretty good hitter too. What gives? Deep team? He's only a junior. Find a summer ball team where he is guaranteed AB's.

Best exhibit yet for showing a short swing Bucfan. Your wizardry with the visuals leave me envious. Plus, anytime you lower your hands, you should shorten your swing. Well, unless you lower them too far. And, you shouldn't really diminish power as long as you maintain bat speed.

I love talking hitting because for all the "looking for the perfect swing" talk, there is some guy, and their are many of them, that you just shake your head and say how do they hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:28 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
LOLOLOLOL...............sorry Bucfan. Off to the dark side for another one. But he is a pretty good hitter too. What gives? Deep team? He's only a junior. Find a summer ball team where he is guaranteed AB's.

The coach likes his other OF'ers. Son likes to play - he realized that his best chance to play would be as a pitcher. He is still a good hitter, but does not work on his hitting. Therefore, his skill level has declined. I agree about summer ball and hitting - when he hits his next ball off the fence, he would remember how much fun it is to hit ... I hope.

Az Bucco fan wrote:
Best exhibit yet for showing a short swing Bucfan. Your wizardry with the visuals leave me envious. Plus, anytime you lower your hands, you should shorten your swing. Well, unless you lower them too far. And, you shouldn't really diminish power as long as you maintain bat speed.

Exactly. Lower the hands to put the bat in hitting position at the start of the swing.

Az Bucco fan wrote:
I love talking hitting because for all the "looking for the perfect swing" talk, there is some guy, and their are many of them, that you just shake your head and say how do they hit.

A lot of times, Manny looks like he is swatting at gnats, and winds up hitting the ball 400'.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:19 am 
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There was an interesting discussion in the booth during the US/Japan WBC game about the Japanese players' approach to hitting. Given the lengthy "discussions" here, I was somewhat surprised that nothing was posted. But then I thought (1) that horse has been beaten to death a hundred times over and (2) I was probably one of 20 people across the country watching the game on TV.

The discussion started after a particularly impressive AB by the Japanese SS.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:20 am 
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Yes No. 9, I think most avoided the conversation like anything involving Craig Wilson...


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:22 am 
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Not to mention... I heard many references to the dare-I-say "productive out," during the WBC.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:44 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
There was an interesting discussion in the booth during the US/Japan WBC game about the Japanese players' approach to hitting. ...

The discussion started after a particularly impressive AB by the Japanese SS.


Juan Encarnacion?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
There was an interesting discussion in the booth during the US/Japan WBC game about the Japanese players' approach to hitting. ...

The discussion started after a particularly impressive AB by the Japanese SS.


Juan Encarnacion?


I'd say closer to Ichiro Suzuki. As noted above, the conversation was spurred by a particularly impressive AB by the Japanese SS. The same SS that you commented upon after going to the WBC game as having really good ABs. Against the US pitcher (I believe it was Oswalt), the SS flicked his bat at an outside pitch (too close to take and too good of a pitch to drive) and dropped it between the LFer and 3Bman. It immediately spurred a discussion by those in the booth about (1) the Japanese discipline at the plate; (2) their propensity to make contact; (3) sacrificing power to ensure contact and (4) how the approach employed by many MLB players is polar opposite.

It was pretty clear to me when watching the Asian teams - primarily the Japanese - that their hitting styles/instruction place a premium on making contact with the ball. Ichiro in particular is an absolute magician at the plate.

Here's a short snippet of what Ted Williams wrote about two-strike hitting in The Science of Hitting:

[i]“You have to think in terms of making everything quicker. How do you do that? You choke up a little bit. You quit trying to pull. You think more about that push swing, that 90-degree impact from the direction of the pitch. You think about hitting the ball back through the box. Joe DiMaggio, Joe Cronin, George Kell, Lou Boudreau, Harvey Kuenn - they could do it. Rod Carew, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Don Mattingly and Pete Rose are probably the most flexible hitters around today. When you’ve shortened up and quickened up, you can wait longer, you get fooled less, you become more consistent getting wood on the ball. Psychologically, becoming a good two-strike hitter inspires confidence. A batter knows he can still hit with authority.” [/i]

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:35 pm 
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That describes a short swing pretty well - keeping the barrel back, having the bat get to the hitting zone fast by having the knob of the bat lead the bat to the hitting zone.

Japanese hitters use short swings on all their swings. Pull hitters get the barrel out in front as soon as possible, and roll the hands to get the barrel ahead of the hands. Japanese hitters do the opposite.

Getting the barrel out early in the swing leads to pulling the ball, and produces more pull power ... and a lot of grounders to short.

Japanese hitters employ the short swing on all swings. Not just on 0-1 counts, or with two strikes, etc. The likelihood that a Japanese hitter could adopt a new hitting approach with 2 strikes, and be successful against a pitcher like Oswalt, is microscopic.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:
Ah yes, a short compact swing..............much much better! :)


You are lighting a match near an open propane tank here, BD ...

This clip of Justin Upton shows a short swing:

Image

See how he keeps the barrel in back of the hands, lets his hands take the shortest path to the baseball (a direct line, not where the hands move away from the body and the barrel of the bat begins rolling forward)?

That is what I mean by a "short swing." Anybody else who has visual evidence as to what is meant (not you, BD) is welcome to add to the discussion.

But what is not meant by a short swing is poking at the ball, or reducing bat speed.

Then again, what the hell do I care? Son has now gone full-time to pitching ... he does not even want to go the park and hit any more.

Ye gods, Upton's swing is almost as short as Bill Madlock's.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:07 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Ye gods, Upton's swing is almost as short as Bill Madlock's.


I don't know if video is available on the internet for Bill Madlock, but he had the most amazing, short and powerful swing I remember seeing. He hit a HR against the Reds in game 3 of the NLCS where his bat went through the hitting zone in the least amount of time I have ever seen. The ball screamed over the LF fence in about 2 seconds. The LF'er did not have a chance to move.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Jack Wilson.....................
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Ye gods, Upton's swing is almost as short as Bill Madlock's.


I don't know if video is available on the internet for Bill Madlock, but he had the most amazing, short and powerful swing I remember seeing. He hit a HR against the Reds in game 3 of the NLCS where his bat went through the hitting zone in the least amount of time I have ever seen. The ball screamed over the LF fence in about 2 seconds. The LF'er did not have a chance to move.

Look how early in the swing Upton's bat starts to bend. That is one strong young man.

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