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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:54 am 
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Better atheletes play 3b. Quickness, footwork and reaction are more important than range.

When you talk about Walker's power, you must note that he played the better part of seasons with a hand injury and recovery that sap the power. Look at his numbers once he adjusted to AAA pitching last season.

Walker has HR power, LaRoche has gap power.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Its nice to have discussions about what to do with the #3 potential 3rd baseman in the system as to where he is gonna play when hes ready...unlike years before

If it doesnt look like there is a fit for LaRoche or Walker on this team, I just hope there is enough demand for them that they can net a very solid, consistant starting pitcher...

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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:49 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Better atheletes play 3b. Quickness, footwork and reaction are more important than range.

Absolutely not. First, I've never seen a 2B turn a double play that didn't rely on his quickness and footwork in order to do so. Second, while your assertion as to quickness and footwork may be true, that does not evince more athleticism than speed and range. Lastly, better hitters tend to play the corners because those positions are not nearly as demanding as the middle positions. This is true even comparing 2Bs to 3Bs. So, it would follow that the better athletes play the more difficult defensive positions (with the exception of Catcher, which places a premium on different skills).

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When you talk about Walker's power, you must note that he played the better part of seasons with a hand injury and recovery that sap the power. Look at his numbers once he adjusted to AAA pitching last season.

Walker has HR power, LaRoche has gap power.

ZM

Again, have to disagree. Look at the isolated power of both players in AAA. (Isolated power, or ISO, is a metric that measures a batter's raw power through extra bases per at bat. It is calculated by subtracting batting average from slugging average.) Walker had an ISO of .174 in '08, which is the year you appear to claim that Walker recovered from his injury. LaRoche's ISO in AAA was .146 in '08, .280 in '07, and .228 in '06. Since you're willing to chalk up Walker's past prior to '08 to an injury, I will chalk up LaRoche's low number in '08 to being a fluke, considering his history.

If you think Walker has more power, that's fine, but I don't see any evidence to support that belief.

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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:22 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Better atheletes play 3b. Quickness, footwork and reaction are more important than range.

When you talk about Walker's power, you must note that he played the better part of seasons with a hand injury and recovery that sap the power. Look at his numbers once he adjusted to AAA pitching last season.

Walker has HR power, LaRoche has gap power.

ZM

Quickness and arm are important at third. Range is important at second. There is no doubt in my mind that Walker has much better range than LaRoche.

I posted links to the career minor league numbers for both players. LaRoche outslugged Walker at every age and every level, even last year, when LaRoche also had a serious hand injury. There is no question which of the two is the more powerful. I doubt that you can find a quote from a single scout or publication that would claim that Walker has more power. If Walker develops, I see him as a 15-20 HR guy who slugs .450-500 in a good year. If LaRoche returns to form, I see him as a 25+ HR guy who slugs at a .500+ rate annually.

That assumes a lot, since Walker has yet to show that he can hit AAA pitching, and, injury or not, LaRoche hasn't hit ML pitching yet.

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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:25 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Better atheletes play 3b. Quickness, footwork and reaction are more important than range.

When you talk about Walker's power, you must note that he played the better part of seasons with a hand injury and recovery that sap the power. Look at his numbers once he adjusted to AAA pitching last season.

Walker has HR power, LaRoche has gap power.

ZM

Quickness and arm are important at third. Range is important at second. There is no doubt in my mind that Walker has much better range than LaRoche.

I posted links to the career minor league numbers for both players. LaRoche outslugged Walker at every age and every level, even last year, when LaRoche also had a serious hand injury. There is no question which of the two is the more powerful. I doubt that you can find a quote from a single scout or publication that would claim that Walker has more power. If Walker develops, I see him as a 15-20 HR guy who slugs .450-500 in a good year. If LaRoche returns to form, I see him as a 25+ HR guy who slugs at a .500+ rate annually.

That assumes a lot, since Walker has yet to show that he can hit AAA pitching, and, injury or not, LaRoche hasn't hit ML pitching yet.

P.S. - I can provide you with a long list of lumbering oafs who have been regular third basement in the major leagues. You'd be hard pressed to make a similar list for second basemen. Second base is the more demanding defensive position, as can clearly be seen by comparing the average hitting numbers for the two position.

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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:17 am 
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None of the defensive stuff matters much if Walker doesn't hit. A sub .280 OBP at AAA says he has a lot to prove. LaRoche (who obviously still has a lot to prove, as well) carried an OBP around .400 at AAA.


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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:07 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
None of the defensive stuff matters much if Walker doesn't hit. A sub .280 OBP at AAA says he has a lot to prove. LaRoche (who obviously still has a lot to prove, as well) carried an OBP around .400 at AAA.

'Struth.

A 4:1 K:BB ratio looks good on a pitching prospect. In Neil's case, it would seem to imply that his last name is a particularly cruel irony.

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 Post subject: Re: What will be the future of Neil Walker?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:32 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
None of the defensive stuff matters much if Walker doesn't hit. A sub .280 OBP at AAA says he has a lot to prove. LaRoche (who obviously still has a lot to prove, as well) carried an OBP around .400 at AAA.

'Struth.

A 4:1 K:BB ratio looks good on a pitching prospect. In Neil's case, it would seem to imply that his last name is a particularly cruel irony.


Hey he could take the Ian Snell way out and change his name.Maybe Neil Williams or Neil Ruth would fit him better.


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