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 Post subject: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:51 am 
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http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs ... inors.aspx

A lot of people seem to be surprised about Gorzo.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:59 am 
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Good. I'm not really surprised at all. I think the Pirates are losing patience with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:16 am 
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Argentum wrote:
Good. I'm not really surprised at all. I think the Pirates are losing patience with him.



Losing patience??? He was the best pitcher on the team two years ago when Tracy ran him into the ground. Scouts raved that he had the best makeup of all their young pitchers and the highest ceiling. He is hurt last year and never got himself right. He came into camp in excellent condition this year. How do you lose patience already? Yet Zach Duke has been told he is a lock for the rotation. How do you not "lose patience" with Duke but you do with Gorzo?

I don't get this move. If he stays in Pittsburgh he can work with Kerrigan, who is supposed to be a godsend to the pitching staff. Maybe his arm still isn't right??? Didn't someone say he was only throwing 88-89 in his last start? When he was going good two years ago he was consistently in the 92-93 range. Curious to see if there is a problem or if he is one of those guys the new regime doesn't seem to "care for"....


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:23 am 
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Unfortunately I don't see any other options in the 5th spot in the rotation and think this is a dumb move.

I'm about as impressed with Jeff Karstens as I am with Gorzo, and I would hope that noone would believe that Virgil Vasquez or Barthmaier are options. You would think that the one remaining opening would be given to the guy who has shown the most potential over his career and is only two years removed from a 14 win season considering that the rest of his competition for the 5th spot is doing just as poorly this spring.

Time to call Pedro.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:24 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Time to call Pedro.



I thought the exact same thing...

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:31 am 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Losing patience??? He was the best pitcher on the team two years ago when Tracy ran him into the ground. Scouts raved that he had the best makeup of all their young pitchers and the highest ceiling. He is hurt last year and never got himself right. He came into camp in excellent condition this year. How do you lose patience already? Yet Zach Duke has been told he is a lock for the rotation. How do you not "lose patience" with Duke but you do with Gorzo?"


And Duke was the best pitcher three years ago, and Ollie the year before. Who cares? It's really simple, and the organization has gone out of it's way to communicate this, if you can't throw strikes, you won't be around long. Period. Duke has been throwing strikes so he is still here.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:38 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Unfortunately I don't see any other options in the 5th spot in the rotation and think this is a dumb move.


If Ohlendorf and Karstens can keep their ERAs under 7, they're probably better options than Gorzo right now. Emphasis on "right now".


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:40 am 
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Argentum wrote:
omgardd wrote:
Unfortunately I don't see any other options in the 5th spot in the rotation and think this is a dumb move.


If Ohlendorf and Karstens can keep their ERAs under 7, they're probably better options than Gorzo right now. Emphasis on "right now".


Ohlendorf's clearly won a job in the rotation. I was referring only to Karstens. I see nothing in him.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:42 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Argentum wrote:
omgardd wrote:
Unfortunately I don't see any other options in the 5th spot in the rotation and think this is a dumb move.


If Ohlendorf and Karstens can keep their ERAs under 7, they're probably better options than Gorzo right now. Emphasis on "right now".


Ohlendorf's clearly won a job in the rotation. I was referring only to Karstens. I see nothing in him.

Nor should you, but that does not mean that optioning Gorzo is a bad move.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:43 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Argentum wrote:
omgardd wrote:
Unfortunately I don't see any other options in the 5th spot in the rotation and think this is a dumb move.


If Ohlendorf and Karstens can keep their ERAs under 7, they're probably better options than Gorzo right now. Emphasis on "right now".


Ohlendorf's clearly won a job in the rotation. I was referring only to Karstens. I see nothing in him.


I was talking the 4th and 5th starter, both spots still being up for grabs, but I understand what you are saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:12 pm 
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I love this move for two reasons..number one, Gorzo hasn't consistently thrown strikes and until he does, he shouldn't be given any opportunity to even sniff the starting rotation..number two, this sends a message to every single player in this organization. If a guy with as much ability as Gorzo can be sent down, ANYONE on that team could be sent down if they don't produce.

If Gorzo wants to get back to the show, he better throw strikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:22 pm 
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This is about accountability. He isn't throwing strikes. Go to Indy and show everyone you can and guess what? You will be back in Pittsburgh before May 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
And Duke was the best pitcher three years ago, and Ollie the year before. Who cares? It's really simple, and the organization has gone out of it's way to communicate this, if you can't throw strikes, you won't be around long. Period. Duke has been throwing strikes so he is still here.

Exactly. And he was optioned to the minors, where he can be recalled if he starts throwing strikes. He was not released.

The Pirates are saying, "Work ahead, join the staff. Work behind, work in the minors."


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:39 pm 
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I'm surprised but I hope Gorzo returns to form. I assumed all along that Ohlendorf had a spot. Now it looks like Karstens will claim the 5 spot, which is ok.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:23 pm 
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What I find interesting is that folks believe Gorzo has always thrown strikes until Tracy messed him up.

Not the case. He has always had problems throwing strikes. Its been his bugaboo since day 1.

In his first year, his stuff is good enough to get guys chasing out of the zone. After a while, hitters caught up, and just took the walk, or waited on the "not so good" strike.

Talk about Karsten's mediocre stuff all you want, he throws what he's got in the strike zone, and has shown he can get guys out with it... sometimes...

He's Josh Fogg, but that is ok with me for now.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:35 pm 
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Wehner mentioned on the radio today that Gorzo seemed to have a sense on entitlement in spring training this year. He contrasted him to Duke, who he said was very aware that the job would have to be earned and was humble. Don't think for a minute that this didn't trickle up to JR and NH.

You'd think that after last year's debacle Gorzo would have had a better attitude. Oh well, sounds like he needed the wake-up call. Now we find out if he uses it as an incentive, or if he uses it as an excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:40 pm 
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I'm in the "send him down" column too. He isn't hitting the strike zone with any consistency, period.

That said, Karstens scares the hell out of me.

Who said "call Pedro" ? I might have to agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors, make Veal a candidate for No.5
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:45 pm 
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If the team was smart,they should start to stretch out Veal and make him the 5th guy.

Looking at their early schedule, they won't need a 5th starter until the 2nd week of the season( i think there is a day/night off in the first 6 games.

There are 19 days, till game 1, thus 23 days until a 5th started would be needed for the first time.

Stretch Veal out, starting NOW, and hopefully he can build up enough arm strength to at least give you a solid 5 innings in that start.

I think Gorzellany will pitch in 1 of the first couple games at Indy, and if the results are encouraging, he will be brought right back up, and fill the 4th or 5th spot, depending on who is doing worse, Ohlehndorf or Veal/Karstens/Vasquez(who seems like he is the 2009 version of a batting practice machine(see Duke, 2007-08).

That is what i would do, hopefully the powers to be are on the same brain length as myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:11 pm 
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cappscrew138 wrote:
http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/archive/2009/03/18/pirates-option-gorzelanny-tabata-to-minors.aspx

A lot of people seem to be surprised about Gorzo.

He earned the demotion, but I'm still surprised that he got it. Surprised in a good way.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo Optioned to Minors, make Veal a candidate for No.5
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:28 pm 
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palushock wrote:
If the team was smart,they should start to stretch out Veal and make him the 5th guy.

Looking at their early schedule, they won't need a 5th starter until the 2nd week of the season( i think there is a day/night off in the first 6 games.

There are 19 days, till game 1, thus 23 days until a 5th started would be needed for the first time.

Stretch Veal out, starting NOW, and hopefully he can build up enough arm strength to at least give you a solid 5 innings in that start.

I think Gorzellany will pitch in 1 of the first couple games at Indy, and if the results are encouraging, he will be brought right back up, and fill the 4th or 5th spot, depending on who is doing worse, Ohlehndorf or Veal/Karstens/Vasquez(who seems like he is the 2009 version of a batting practice machine(see Duke, 2007-08).

That is what i would do, hopefully the powers to be are on the same brain length as myself.

The reason the Pirates even have Veal is because he failed as a starter. Why do you think it would be prudent to have him try it again?

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