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 Post subject: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:45 pm 
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Another bad outing today. Looking like he may not be a good candidate for the rotation. Who do you guys see filling the available spots behind Maholm?

I'm thinking:

-Maholm
-Snell
-Gorz (if he can keep it together)

Not sure after that. You know, Pedro is still available and pitched pretty well in the WBC.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:52 pm 
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Maholm, Snell, Duke, Ohlendorf.

5th spot will go to Gorzo or Karstens, whichever one sucks less the rest of spring training.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:20 pm 
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The problem with Karstens in my opinion is that he's a tweener, not a power pitcher, but lacking in stuff to be considered a finesse guy. He's easily hittable. His walk numbers aren't terrible, hitters just seem to sit on his fat pitches.

Edited to clarify a point. Changed "control" to the much maligned "stuff".


Last edited by Argentum on Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:31 pm 
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BBF wrote:
5th spot will go to Gorzo or Karstens, whichever one sucks less the rest of spring training.


Dumatrait and his 5.50 ERA may be looking pretty good come mid April. Is it too late to start stretching out Veal?


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
The problem with Karstens in my opinion is that he's a tweener, not a power pitcher, but lacking in control to be considered a finesse guy. He's easily hittable. His walk numbers aren't terrible, hitters just seem to sit on his fat pitches.



Or, his elbow is worse than he let's on. Don't forget McCutcheon, he could get a hard look.

If none of those work, I think NH just might go and look for a unsigned vet who shows in the WBC that he has something, anything left in the tank. If only to get a couple months in until someone like Dumatrait gets his jollies back in his arm

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:37 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Argentum wrote:
The problem with Karstens in my opinion is that he's a tweener, not a power pitcher, but lacking in control to be considered a finesse guy. He's easily hittable. His walk numbers aren't terrible, hitters just seem to sit on his fat pitches.



Or, his elbow is worse than he let's on. Don't forget McCutcheon, he could get a hard look.



While I think DMcCutchen is good possibility long term, I think his chances of making the club in April are pretty close to zero, unless of course Karstens IS hurt and Gorzo can't stop piddling down his leg every time he takes the mound. Probably a great candidate for 2010 though.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:23 pm 
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In regards to the pitchers getting hit, bear in mind that they may be being instructed to work on their change or some other pitch and not necessarily pitching as they would in the regular season.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:25 pm 
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good point AZ


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
In regards to the pitchers getting hit, bear in mind that they may be being instructed to work on their change or some other pitch and not necessarily pitching as they would in the regular season.


If you read "between the lines" of Gorzo's comments after his last outing, one might be led to believe that he was working on certain pitches . . . that is the only silver lining that I could find after his performance the other day.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
In regards to the pitchers getting hit, bear in mind that they may be being instructed to work on their change or some other pitch and not necessarily pitching as they would in the regular season.


AZ:

That is an excellent point, and it is inevitable that pitchers are doing just that. I was basing my opinions also on the fact that Gorzo made 4 starts in August and September last year and posted horrible ERA's and 9 walks in less than 18 innings. This was after he spent time in the minors supposedly fixing things. Methinks there is still more that needs fixing.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:05 pm 
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AZ is spot on. Added to the fact that pitchers are working on locating a certain pitch, and seeing if they can spot a 2-0 change-up, they are also pitching in Florida on some days where the wind plays havoc, and the fielders are .... uhhm, less than stellar, shall we say.

But the problem that I have with Gorzo is that his control was awful last year. Kerrigan comes on board and is hammering the pitchers to throw strikes. (BTW, "strike one, every batter, every time" is what Bucfan's son has heard for 9 years.)

So, with that in mind, Gorzo comes out and ... goes 2-0 and 3-0 to everybody but the bat boy. Walks too many. Runs up huge pitch counts every time out.

He needs to be able to throw strikes, and throw strikes with more than just his fastball.

Otherwise, he is going to be hammered again this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:51 pm 
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While I'm willing to concede the possibility Karsten is just working on certain pitches, it doesn't change my opinion that a) he doesn't have a quality pitch b) is a contact pitcher who usually is on the losing end of the contact.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:02 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
In regards to the pitchers getting hit, bear in mind that they may be being instructed to work on their change or some other pitch and not necessarily pitching as they would in the regular season.


AZ:

That is an excellent point, and it is inevitable that pitchers are doing just that. I was basing my opinions also on the fact that Gorzo made 4 starts in August and September last year and posted horrible ERA's and 9 walks in less than 18 innings. This was after he spent time in the minors supposedly fixing things. Methinks there is still more that needs fixing.


I agree that spring training stats, especially for pitchers, have to be taken with a grain of salt, but only to a point. If Gorzo and Kartens are "working on things" and go 3-0 on batter after batter, doesn't it imply that the things upon which they are working are not, well, working? Presumably, Maholm is "working on things" as well but he still manages to blaze through four innings without breaking a sweat. I guess this is because the things upon which he is working are working. It's a fine line I know.

BM


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