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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:15 am 
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BBF wrote:
I have to take the position advocated by Willton and Bucfan that Ohman is probably best suited as a loogy, and we don't really need one when we have quite a few left handed options for the pen (aside from Burnett and Grabow, we also have Veal and Dumatrait). Further, I would argue that rebuilding teams would be wise to not throw money at a bullpen when in the position the Pirates are in.

However, if Grabow is traded, I think getting Ohman for $1 mil would be a reasonable move. Not sure I would spend much more than that though.


I would agree if I thought Ohman was a LOOGY, which I don't. Burnett definitely is though. Dumatrait is still nursing an injury and Veal is a huge question mark. All I'm after is a LHP who can also be used affectively against RHBs. Burnett pitches batting practice against righties.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:34 am 
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Argentum wrote:
BBF wrote:
I have to take the position advocated by Willton and Bucfan that Ohman is probably best suited as a loogy, and we don't really need one when we have quite a few left handed options for the pen (aside from Burnett and Grabow, we also have Veal and Dumatrait). Further, I would argue that rebuilding teams would be wise to not throw money at a bullpen when in the position the Pirates are in.

However, if Grabow is traded, I think getting Ohman for $1 mil would be a reasonable move. Not sure I would spend much more than that though.


I would agree if I thought Ohman was a LOOGY, which I don't. Burnett definitely is though. Dumatrait is still nursing an injury and Veal is a huge question mark. All I'm after is a LHP who can also be used affectively against RHBs. Burnett pitches batting practice against righties.


Fair enough. Ohman has typically held righties to around a .700-.750 OPS, though there was one year that crept up over .800. That's reasonable. I guess though that I would be more interested in acquiring a RH reliever to get righties out since our pen is already leaning towards being too left handed. Additionally, some of the RH options are, IMO, crap (I'm looking at you, Mr. Yates) And in that regard, I think the guy I want to see in the pen is Evan Meek.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:14 pm 
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The bullpen is a strange mix this year considering Hansen and Veal have to stick if we are to keep them. Question, did NH send Hansen down to AAA last year knowing that was his last option? If so why? A strange move considering we weren't going to be any worse for the wear with him (yes I remember the 5 run, 4 walk fiasco) and saving the option would have given us more wiggle room this year.

These guys are locks: Capps, Grabow, Yates, Hansen, and Veal. That leaves 2 open bull pen spots. We definitely need another LHP, I suppose Dumatrait could fit the bill, but I worry about his health. I can live with Burnett although as stated earlier, I'd prefer someone who can actually be effective against righties, we need innings.

If Meek ends up making the club I guess Karstens is the odd man out?


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:45 pm 
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I may have a little insight on this. A kid who went to school here (Tobi Stoner) and played against my oldest son is in the Mets system. He told me that he was being invited to the Mets major league camp as a non-roster invitee and that he was being scouted heavily by the Pirates...in fact he thought the trade might already be in place and involved Grabow. This kid has excellent stuff and is moving through the Mets system quickly. I would make this trade in a heart beat. I don't know how to link his minor league stats, but he has done well at every level and I think has a very high ceiling.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Here ya go Brad...

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/pl ... ?pid=31353

Looked pretty solid until hitting AA this year, where his K rate dropped and his walk rate bumped up. Any idea of his velocity and/or what pitches he throws?


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Throws in the low to mid 90s with a hard slider and curve....probably needs to develop something off-speed. He is a very hard worker with a great attitude and work ethic. He also has size that idicates he may pick up a little velocity as he matures.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:03 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
The bullpen is a strange mix this year considering Hansen and Veal have to stick if we are to keep them. Question, did NH send Hansen down to AAA last year knowing that was his last option? If so why? A strange move considering we weren't going to be any worse for the wear with him (yes I remember the 5 run, 4 walk fiasco) and saving the option would have given us more wiggle room this year.

These guys are locks: Capps, Grabow, Yates, Hansen, and Veal. That leaves 2 open bull pen spots. We definitely need another LHP, I suppose Dumatrait could fit the bill, but I worry about his health. I can live with Burnett although as stated earlier, I'd prefer someone who can actually be effective against righties, we need innings.

If Meek ends up making the club I guess Karstens is the odd man out?

I doubt that Veal is a lock. He is a risk worth taking, but I think he's no more of a lock than Evan Meek was last year.
Two factors to consider:
1. We only have room for one high upside wildman to wield the mop. My money's on Hansen.
2. If Dumatrait is hurt, he'll go on the 60-day DL and Veal will get a chance. If Dumatrait is OK, I can't see Veal pushing past the relatively cheap Burnett and Dumatrait. We might be able to swing a deal with the Cubs, just like we did with the Rays for Meek.

Finally, Karstens is out of options and I don't see any way he doesn't make it to the Burgh out of ST.

I see a lively competition between Ohlendorf, Meek and Sues. Two of these guys will end up at AAA. Available options weigh heavy: it's a numbers game.

JMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:19 pm 
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Whew. Glad to see our conversation has upped itself from the merits of switch-hitting utility infielders, and minor league contracts for OF, to LH specialist relievers! :D

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:00 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Whew. Glad to see our conversation has upped itself from the merits of switch-hitting utility infielders, and minor league contracts for OF, to LH specialist relievers! :D

ZM


Good point. The name "Will Ohman" usually will not precipitate 3 posts, let alone 3 pages.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:11 pm 
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Screw Will Ohman. Who the freakin fat mans dance gives a krap about Will Ohman?? Its my observation that middle relievers careers like Ohman, with rare exception, are spotty at best. And why? Because they stink, which is the reason theyre middle relievers. And every year, some of em who skanked it big time the year before, put together 60 better innings than usual and attract a little attention. And then the following year its back to the Kaboom Follies.

Yeah, id give him a million bucks, but so will alot of teams, and since we're the bar skank at 2 am we aint gettin him. And i say good. A blip on baseballs radar. Offends my fingers that theyre even typing about him.

Lets go with Burnett. Hes equally worthless, but hes paid his dues and deserves some stories to tell his grandkids.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:14 pm 
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I like the concluding logic. I really do.

I appeals to the SkyBlast side of me...

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:18 pm 
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I bow graciously to my message board pal with the doctorate. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:41 pm 
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SyrBucco wrote:
I doubt that Veal is a lock. He is a risk worth taking, but I think he's no more of a lock than Evan Meek was last year.


Meek made the cut out of spring training. If Veal is to be handled in a similar manner, I'm guessing NH will want an extended look at him before proffering Chicago to buy him out.

SyrBucco wrote:
1. We only have room for one high upside wildman to wield the mop. My money's on Hansen.


Man I hope he's not as wild as Hansen, but yes, I agree he's the man to double down on.

SyrBucco wrote:
2. If Dumatrait is hurt, he'll go on the 60-day DL and Veal will get a chance. If Dumatrait is OK, I can't see Veal pushing past the relatively cheap Burnett and Dumatrait.


I'd be surpeised if Dumatrait doesn't start the season on the DL. He's already week's behind in his spring conditioning. If Veal is remotely effective, I might take him over Burnett, his upside is too enticing.

SyrBucco wrote:
Finally, Karstens is out of options and I don't see any way he doesn't make it to the Burgh out of ST.


Are you sure Karsten's is out of options? I thought Burnett, Hansen, and Yates are the only ones?

SyrBucco wrote:
I see a lively competition between Ohlendorf, Meek and Sues. Two of these guys will end up at AAA. Available options weigh heavy: it's a numbers game. JMHO.


I still think Ohlendorf's future is out of the pen. Unless he can learn to throw an effective change.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
Screw Will Ohman. Who the freakin fat mans dance gives a krap about Will Ohman?? Its my observation that middle relievers careers like Ohman, with rare exception, are spotty at best. And why? Because they stink, which is the reason theyre middle relievers. And every year, some of em who skanked it big time the year before, put together 60 better innings than usual and attract a little attention. And then the following year its back to the Kaboom Follies.

Yeah, id give him a million bucks, but so will alot of teams, and since we're the bar skank at 2 am we aint gettin him. And i say good. A blip on baseballs radar. Offends my fingers that theyre even typing about him.

Lets go with Burnett. Hes equally worthless, but hes paid his dues and deserves some stories to tell his grandkids.


Call me crazy, but it sounds like you're not a fan of THE Will Ohman?!?!?

As for Burnett, if being dumped by the bar skank, not being claimed by every other suitor, and coming back on your hands and knees via a minor league contract is paying your dues, he's Johnny Frickin' Paycheck.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:18 am 
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I really like Burnett and i think he is one of the best under 30 relievers on our major league roster right now.I also think he will be back to being a starter again in the near future.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:53 am 
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BBF wrote:
I have to take the position advocated by Willton and Bucfan that Ohman is probably best suited as a loogy, and we don't really need one when we have quite a few left handed options for the pen (aside from Burnett and Grabow, we also have Veal and Dumatrait). Further, I would argue that rebuilding teams would be wise to not throw money at a bullpen when in the position the Pirates are in.

However, if Grabow is traded, I think getting Ohman for $1 mil would be a reasonable move. Not sure I would spend much more than that though.

That pretty much summarizes my take on the "Oh, man!" acquisition. I don't see why folks are excited. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:26 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I really like Burnett and i think he is one of the best under 30 relievers on our major league roster right now.I also think he will be back to being a starter again in the near future.

And you base this on what? Certainly not on Burnett's splits, which show that he is ill-equipped to get the average mix of batters out - which would include a lot of righties.

Burnett is a LOOGY. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Every team should have one. We even have a ROOGY. His name is Yates.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:20 pm 
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SyrBucco wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
I really like Burnett and i think he is one of the best under 30 relievers on our major league roster right now.I also think he will be back to being a starter again in the near future.

And you base this on what? Certainly not on Burnett's splits, which show that he is ill-equipped to get the average mix of batters out - which would include a lot of righties.

Burnett is a LOOGY. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Every team should have one. We even have a ROOGY. His name is Yates.


Burnett was good before his injury and he didn't even start to show signs of the pre-injury Burnett until last season.When you have an injury like he had it takes some people alot longer than others to heal and maybe he was also afraid of another setback, but i still believe he is going to a good starter again one day if he is given the chance, if not that i think he will be one of the top relievers under 30 on our team right now and probably even in our whole system.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:22 am 
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This is the topic about Will Ohman.I thought it was worth bringing back since we offered him a contract.
I'm bringin old topics back, the board don't know how to act!


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ohman
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I really like Burnett and i think he is one of the best under 30 relievers on our major league roster right now.I also think he will be back to being a starter again in the near future.

I will offer 10 cookies against your 1 cookie that Burnett never starts another game in the majors, and 100 cookies against your 1 cookie that, even if he does, he will end up with an ERA over 6.00 for all the starts he makes combined from this point forward.

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