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 Post subject: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:59 am 
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...and although others will point blame at Clint Hurdle for poor managerial decisions (and I don't necessarily disagree), I still blame the players for it's they who are on the field and play the game.

Two of the Pirates NOT getting it done offensively against the Cards last night were Snider, and Walker.

Each left three runners on base, and each went 0-4.

Harrison left three runners on base but he at least had a double.

Martin went 0-4 and left one runner on base.

Harrison and Marte left two runners in scoring position.

Mr. Hughes did NOT get the job done on the mound. Clint Hurdle can maybe take the blame for Hughes pitching when he did, but Mr. Hughes still had to make the pitches and get the team safely into the dug out and he didn't.

Blame for this crucial loss can be shared by many of the Pirates...you win as a team and you lose as a team. The Pirates lost as a team.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:06 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
...and although others will point blame at Clint Hurdle for poor managerial decisions (and I don't necessarily disagree), I still blame the players for it's they who are on the field and play the game.

Two of the Pirates NOT getting it done offensively against the Cards last night were Snider, and Walker.

Each left three runners on base, and each went 0-4.

Harrison left three runners on base but he at least had a double.

Martin went 0-4 and left one runner on base.

Harrison and Marte left two runners in scoring position.

Mr. Hughes did NOT get the job done on the mound. Clint Hurdle can maybe take the blame for Hughes pitching when he did, but Mr. Hughes still had to make the pitches and get the team safely into the dug out and he didn't.

Blame for this crucial loss can be shared by many of the Pirates...you win as a team and you lose as a team. The Pirates lost as a team.

Don't leave out the defense, highlighted (lowlighted?) by Cutch's bobble of the game tying single, followed by a throw to the wrong base. The bobble I can forgive, that sort of thing happens, but if he throws to second as he should have, they're still playing.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:10 pm 
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You know, after watching CF with Cutch on the DL and now, I'm not sure this team is better off with a LF-CF switch. Watching Marte just glide around CF was ridiculous. Not that Cutch is bad, but I wonder if his arm plays better in LF, and Marte's in CF, along with the observation that Marte looks more "natural" in CF.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:39 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
You know, after watching CF with Cutch on the DL and now, I'm not sure this team is better off with a LF-CF switch. Watching Marte just glide around CF was ridiculous. Not that Cutch is bad, but I wonder if his arm plays better in LF, and Marte's in CF, along with the observation that Marte looks more "natural" in CF.

ZM


I thought the same thing. I know the debate about Cutch's defensive WAR has come into play multiple times, and honestly without knowing what a replacement level defender is in CF I can't really quantify it, but you look at a guy like Gomez or Lagares or Jackie Bradley Jr. and you know right off that Cutch isn't elite. Looking at those guys compared to Marte, though, and I'm not sure there's a huge gap.

I don't know, it's a small sample and you can't really see defensive positioning prior to contact, but it felt like Marte was making plays look easy that I was expecting to be trouble off the bat.

I've always kind of preferred Cutch in left and then let the other guys sort things out between center and right (because they have bigger arms) based off of what their scouting reports were, and after seeing Marte patrol CF I think I'm probably more of a proponent of that than before.

I don't think it'll influence a season's outcome so won't be outraged if it doesn't happen, but I do agree that you could maximize results with Cutch in left.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:40 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
You know, after watching CF with Cutch on the DL and now, I'm not sure this team is better off with a LF-CF switch. Watching Marte just glide around CF was ridiculous. Not that Cutch is bad, but I wonder if his arm plays better in LF, and Marte's in CF, along with the observation that Marte looks more "natural" in CF.

ZM


I thought the same thing. I know the debate about Cutch's defensive WAR has come into play multiple times, and honestly without knowing what a replacement level defender is in CF I can't really quantify it, but you look at a guy like Gomez or Lagares or Jackie Bradley Jr. and you know right off that Cutch isn't elite. Looking at those guys compared to Marte, though, and I'm not sure there's a huge gap.

I don't know, it's a small sample and you can't really see defensive positioning prior to contact, but it felt like Marte was making plays look easy that I was expecting to be trouble off the bat.

I've always kind of preferred Cutch in left and then let the other guys sort things out between center and right (because they have bigger arms) based off of what their scouting reports were, and after seeing Marte patrol CF I think I'm probably more of a proponent of that than before.

I don't think it'll influence a season's outcome so won't be outraged if it doesn't happen, but I do agree that you could maximize results with Cutch in left.

You don't need WAR to see who the better defender is between Cutch and Marte.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:49 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
You know, after watching CF with Cutch on the DL and now, I'm not sure this team is better off with a LF-CF switch. Watching Marte just glide around CF was ridiculous. Not that Cutch is bad, but I wonder if his arm plays better in LF, and Marte's in CF, along with the observation that Marte looks more "natural" in CF.

ZM


I thought the same thing. I know the debate about Cutch's defensive WAR has come into play multiple times, and honestly without knowing what a replacement level defender is in CF I can't really quantify it, but you look at a guy like Gomez or Lagares or Jackie Bradley Jr. and you know right off that Cutch isn't elite. Looking at those guys compared to Marte, though, and I'm not sure there's a huge gap.

I don't know, it's a small sample and you can't really see defensive positioning prior to contact, but it felt like Marte was making plays look easy that I was expecting to be trouble off the bat.

I've always kind of preferred Cutch in left and then let the other guys sort things out between center and right (because they have bigger arms) based off of what their scouting reports were, and after seeing Marte patrol CF I think I'm probably more of a proponent of that than before.

I don't think it'll influence a season's outcome so won't be outraged if it doesn't happen, but I do agree that you could maximize results with Cutch in left.

You don't need WAR to see who the better defender is between Cutch and Marte.


Oh I agree, my main point was that we see Cutch every day and love Cutch to death so maybe we overrate and defend the defense a bit more than we should. Because the difference between him and Marte, to me at least, is stark.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:12 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Oh I agree, my main point was that we see Cutch every day and love Cutch to death so maybe we overrate and defend the defense a bit more than we should. Because the difference between him and Marte, to me at least, is stark.

I love Cutch, and I think that today's lousy defensive metrics fail to do him justice. I just think that Marte has better range and a better arm. I also think that moving to left would reduce Cutch's wear and tear a little bit. But I sure as hell don't want to be the guy who tells Cutch that he's moving to left.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Cutch's arm is . . . . ummmm . . . not good. For that reason alone, a move to LF would be a decent call.

That being written, there have been a couple of recent defensive plays by Marte in CF that left me scratching my head somewhat. The first was one where he ended up making an awkward diving catch on a ball that he was very hesitant going after and the second was the play last night on the game tying hit. I'm not claiming that he should have made the catch, but the ball hung up for a bit and it wasn't close. I don't know if he was playing super deep, got a bad jump or whatever . . . when the ball left the bat, I thought that it was going to be a close call as to whether he'd get to it. Maybe he just needs some regular time out there to get back in the groove of reading the angles off the bat.

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 Post subject: Re: NOT getting it done...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:37 pm 
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I thought the same on the hit last night - Cutch would have gotten there. Cutch is very agressive going after balls. Marte usually is too, but I thought maybe he wasn't as comfortable as he normally is because he was in center.


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