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 Post subject: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:57 pm 
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I think most people who still care about or follow the Pirates long ago mentally prepared themselves for a record-setting 17th straight losing season in 2009.

What may well prove to be more painful in the coming year is watching the emergence of Matt Wieters, whom Dave Littlefield famously passed over in the 2007 amateur draft in favor of Danny Moskos, in Baltimore. Andy McPhail signed Gregg Zaun as an early-season placeholder/mentor, but Wieters is expected to get the call-up in May.

Wieters 2008 season A+/AA
.355/.454/.600/1.054, 27HR/91RBI/89RS/121RC

Some projections for his rookie season:
Bill James
.311/.407/.526/.933, 24HR/85RBI/68RS/101RC

CHONE
.274/.352/.439/.791, 15HR/64RBI/59RS/65RC

Oliver
.294/.373/.487/.860, 20HR/82RC
(The Oliver model doesn't project RBI or runs scored.)

PECOTA
.311/.395/.544/.939, 31HR/102RBI/105RS/123RC

Even the worst of those projections is ROY-caliber stuff, especially for a catcher. The Bill James and PECOTA projections are just monstrous.

Nice fangraphs brief about Wieters.

As pitchers and catchers report, I just thought we might want to use this thread to track the progress of one of DL's biggest gaffes.

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Last edited by LtCol Kojak Slaphead on Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:37 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:06 pm 
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I say we should start one for Matt Morris too, but how many times can you say..."He went out in his bathrobe and got the newspaper"?

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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Damn you Dave Littlefield....damn you to Hell. Hellooooo!!!!!!!!!1


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Puggy wrote:
Damn you Dave Littlefield....damn you to Hell. Hellooooo!!!!!!!!!1


Just a question, i have a baseball signed by Dave Littlefield, do you think this lowered the value of the baseball i bought for $1.19?


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
Puggy wrote:
Damn you Dave Littlefield....damn you to Hell. Hellooooo!!!!!!!!!1


Just a question, i have a baseball signed by Dave Littlefield, do you think this lowered the value of the baseball i bought for $1.19?

Heck yeah Colin....I'd toss that ball to the dog or the neighborhood kids. It's worthless. Hellooooo!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
Puggy wrote:
Damn you Dave Littlefield....damn you to Hell. Hellooooo!!!!!!!!!1


Just a question, i have a baseball signed by Dave Littlefield, do you think this lowered the value of the baseball i bought for $1.19?


I'd hold on to it. When Moskos wins ROY that ball will be worth something.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Best laugh of the day colin. Don't want to burst your bubble but I believe ryann is still in HS.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Agree-- good one!!

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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Bumpity bump.

Andy Macphail announced today during the O's-Jays game that Wieters will make his ML debut on Friday vs. Detroit.

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Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:43 am 
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Ok, Littlefield didn't draft Wieters. We get it. Why keep beating ourselves up over it.

Anyone hear from Chris Shelton lately?


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:51 am 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Andy Macphail announced today during the O's-Jays game that Wieters will make his ML debut on Friday vs. Detroit.

Let's see who's laughing in 2011, when the Pirates are playing the Orioles in interleague play. Wieters comes to the plate. The game is in the 12th inning, and the Buccos bring in their 3rd lefty reliever to turn Wieters around to the right side. That brilliant manuever pays huge dividends, and is possible only because the Buccos have the one thing that all teams demand - a number 3 situational lefty reliever.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:32 am 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Bumpity bump.

Andy Macphail announced today during the O's-Jays game that Wieters will make his ML debut on Friday vs. Detroit.


All 5 of my fantasy teams are very happy with this news!


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:30 am 
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I hope Dave Littlefield's wife refuses him night after night.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:13 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
Ok, Littlefield didn't draft Wieters. We get it. Why keep beating ourselves up over it.

Anyone hear from Chris Shelton lately?

I really hope you were smiling when you compared Wieters to Shelton.

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I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Why? Neither has any effect on what the Pirates will do now.

Heck, I think I'll start whining about passing on Pujols. They shoulda known.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:20 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Why? Neither has any effect on what the Pirates will do now.

Heck, I think I'll start whining about passing on Pujols. They shoulda known.

ZM


C'mon ZM, you are being ridiculous. EVERYONE knew that Weiters>>>>>>>>>>>>Moskos. This isn't hindsight. EVERYONE knew it was a mistake the instant the Pirates announced the pick. Find me one credible report at the time that said different.

Completely different scenario with Pujols.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:33 pm 
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BBF wrote:
C'mon ZM, you are being ridiculous. EVERYONE knew that Weiters>>>>>>>>>>>>Moskos. This isn't hindsight. EVERYONE knew it was a mistake the instant the Pirates announced the pick. Find me one credible report at the time that said different.

Exactly. There was not a Pirates scout who thought Moskos was a better player than Wieters. The reports on Moskos were that he struggled a bit as a starter, and did better as a reliever.

If Moskos were David Price, then I give the Pirates a break. Not the case and not even close. The Pirates passed on the best hitter in the 2007 draft, for a questionable reliever.

This mistake will follow them for at least the next 6 seasons, when Wieters - who should have been a Pirate - is crushing AL pitching.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:51 pm 
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All of that is correct.

But still. So what? I matters not in the Pirates development at this stage. Just like Shelton was a focal point of fan frustration that proved to have no impact on how good or bad the Pirates will be, Weiters is a focal point that will not determine a thing about what the Pirates will be from now on.

You say we passed on him, yep, we also passed on Pujols, Garcioparra and any number of other great players, for not so great players.

It matters not at this point and only presents a "Maalox Moment" for some, and a shrug from me.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Weiters will not determine a thing about what the Pirates will be from now on because he is not a Pirate. But he should be one, and it would not have cost us even half as much as the money that was wasted on Matt Morris.

It may not frustrate you, but it sure as hell is going to frustrate every one else.


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 Post subject: Re: Wieters Watch '09: How Much Pain Can You Stand?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:49 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
...Weiters is a focal point that will not determine a thing about what the Pirates will be from now on.

In terms of on-field production ... well, duh.

But in terms of the ideological shift that's taken place since DL left town, I don't think you could be more mistaken. Coonely and Huntington have repeatedly pointed to the 2007 draft as the sort of mistake the Pirates can't afford to make going forward. You don't think they'd like to jump in the Way-Back Machine and get another crack at him?

As others have pointed out, this isn't just passing smug, 20/20-hindsight judgement. Letting Wieters drop to the O's — for Danny Moskos no less — was viewed as indefensibly stupid then and now. Jeezus, they didn't even draft the best pitcher available (Detwiler) at that point.

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I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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