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 Post subject: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:44 am 
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I keep hearing "this guy has the physical skills...he has the stuff"...to be a very dominant pitcher.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/pit/bernie-pleskoff-pirates-pitcher-stolmy-pimentel-has-potential-if-he-can-harness-it?ymd=20140813&content_id=89441328&vkey=news_pit

But what about the mental toughness...the mental discipline...to control game situations...to control those skills?

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?

I believe the mental side of baseball is just as important...especially with pitchers.

Having the skills is one thing...what that individual player does with those skills...how he executes or uses those skills is just as important if not more important.

Baseball is no exception. In fact, baseball is "between the two ears" way more than other sports...IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:45 am 
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I agree. There are a lot of players who are 6 inches from success- that being the 6 inches between their ears.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:51 am 
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bassoondirector wrote:

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?.


Seriously? You are lumping Pimental and Morton together!?!! Look, Morton isn't Cy Young but he is perfectly fine in his role as a #3 starter. A 3.62 ERA (FIP of 3.77), WHIP of around 1.2, only 9 HR allowed in 150 innings.

I realize that is just your opinion, but dude...be somewhat reasonable with your comparisons!


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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:11 am 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?.


Seriously? You are lumping Pimental and Morton together!?!! Look, Morton isn't Cy Young but he is perfectly fine in his role as a #3 starter. A 3.62 ERA (FIP of 3.77), WHIP of around 1.2, only 9 HR allowed in 150 innings.

I realize that is just your opinion, but dude...be somewhat reasonable with your comparisons!



I think the apt comparison is Charlie Morton from 2010! Remember what a thrill that was? Watching him give up nine runs in two innings. Pimentel is only on this team because he has all this potential and he is out of options! Charlie Morton 2010 was able to stay and work it out on a team that lost 105 games! We can't afford that luxury this year so Pimentel may be able to figure it out by 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:16 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?.


Seriously? You are lumping Pimental and Morton together!?!! Look, Morton isn't Cy Young but he is perfectly fine in his role as a #3 starter. A 3.62 ERA (FIP of 3.77), WHIP of around 1.2, only 9 HR allowed in 150 innings.

I realize that is just your opinion, but dude...be somewhat reasonable with your comparisons!


Sorry "dude"...I mean Chris...I guess that was a bad comparison. :)

Because he DOES have very good stuff, I think Corsair put him in proper context. He did have "issues" earlier in his career. And, he has become a much better pitcher.

There are times though that I've see the "old" Charlie surface during a game...giving up too many walks and too many base runners and falling behind in the count too many times...at least for me anyways.

But he has become a much, much better pitcher.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Some head case pitchers with "electric stuff" figure it out.
Ryan Vogelsong is a decent example.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:23 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Some head case pitchers with "electric stuff" figure it out.
Ryan Vogelsong is a decent example.


Yep No. 9...you summed it up in two short sentences. That's all I was trying to say in my original post!

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:31 pm 
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By the way, thanks Doug. You knew what I was getting at...6 inches between the ears...

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:53 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
I keep hearing "this guy has the physical skills...he has the stuff"...to be a very dominant pitcher.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/pit/bernie-pleskoff-pirates-pitcher-stolmy-pimentel-has-potential-if-he-can-harness-it?ymd=20140813&content_id=89441328&vkey=news_pit

But what about the mental toughness...the mental discipline...to control game situations...to control those skills?

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?

I believe the mental side of baseball is just as important...especially with pitchers.

Having the skills is one thing...what that individual player does with those skills...how he executes or uses those skills is just as important if not more important.

Baseball is no exception. In fact, baseball is "between the two ears" way more than other sports...IMHO.

And you suspect that Pimentel isn't mentally tough because...?

Here's a much more likely explanation. He's not ready for the major leagues yet. Or maybe it really isn't that easy to pitch successfully when you only get a chance once a week or less. Or perhaps he's having a hard time adjusting to pitching out of the bullpen instead of in a regular rotation. Maybe a combination of things. All I know is that nobody was ready to hang him from a tree last year when he was lights out in five games for the Bucs after spending the season pitching in a regular rotation for Indy and Altoona.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
Chris Anderson wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?.


Seriously? You are lumping Pimental and Morton together!?!! Look, Morton isn't Cy Young but he is perfectly fine in his role as a #3 starter. A 3.62 ERA (FIP of 3.77), WHIP of around 1.2, only 9 HR allowed in 150 innings.

I realize that is just your opinion, but dude...be somewhat reasonable with your comparisons!



I think the apt comparison is Charlie Morton from 2010! Remember what a thrill that was? Watching him give up nine runs in two innings. Pimentel is only on this team because he has all this potential and he is out of options! Charlie Morton 2010 was able to stay and work it out on a team that lost 105 games! We can't afford that luxury this year so Pimentel may be able to figure it out by 2018.

Take a look around at the mop up guys the other contenders run out there, then get back to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Agreed that Pimentel does seem like a 'young Morton' (not a perfect comparison, but good enough)..

It wouldn't be shocking if nearly every team had a guy like Stolmy on their 40-man though.

'Raw Talent' > 'Mental Makeup' guys exist for a reason, it's because some percentage of them eventually turn things around. It may take years and/or multiple destinations, but they eventually pan out.

So while it is understandable that the Pirates want to try and 'cash a lotto ticket' (in the longer term sense), that doesn't seem like the best luxury to have at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:09 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
And you suspect that Pimentel isn't mentally tough because...?

Here's a much more likely explanation. He's not ready for the major leagues yet. Or maybe it really isn't that easy to pitch successfully when you only get a chance once a week or less. Or perhaps he's having a hard time adjusting to pitching out of the bullpen instead of in a regular rotation. Maybe a combination of things. All I know is that nobody was ready to hang him from a tree last year when he was lights out in five games for the Bucs after spending the season pitching in a regular rotation for Indy and Altoona.


First of all Sisy, I've been rooting for Pimentel to succeed. The Pirates can only be a stronger team with him being a successful pitcher.

Actually, I like your explanation better. Maybe he's just not ready to pitch at the major league level yet...certainly not on a playoff contending team coming in from the bullpen in critical situations.

The manager (Hurdle) would share the blame with the other coaches for putting him in those situations.

Maybe Hurdle feels he has to use Pimentel in certain situations because the bullpen has been so suspect up to this point of the season. Who's fault is that?? Well, everyone from NH to the bullpen pitchers themselves I would guess.

Maybe now that the Pirates have acquired John Axford to beef up the bullpen, things will change for the better. Here's hoping! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:24 am 
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I guess Stolmy is good for discussion, he's with the big club based on NH's assessment but that's the problem, it's a bad assessment. Or maybe he's the best option they have (that's sad). Either way, he's young, he's not ready to be good on a consistent basis. Replace him.

Kind of like Nix. I don't expect the guy to hit, I don't expect him to pick every bullet short hop, but I do expect him to throw the ball to first base when his momentum is carrying him that way to at least get an out. He must of been trying to make Sportscenter. Especially following a homerun and a single to start an inning. Get an out.

Stolmy, throw a strike. Put it down the middle. What's the hurt? The guys behind you want to play to.

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:51 am 
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Yeah, and everyone seems to forget just a couple of outings ago, he strikes out the side.

On DL now, so unless this is contrived somehow, that would explain his inability to throw strikes. The guy, while inconsistent this year, has been far from "useless".

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:29 am 
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Remember, fellas. "90% of the game is half mental." -- Yogi Berra


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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Maybe they should place Morton on the 15 day DL with a "mild right ankle sprain"...

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:29 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Maybe they should place Morton on the 15 day DL with a "mild right ankle sprain"...


Gimme $500 and a blunt object and I'll make sure it happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:35 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I guess Stolmy is good for discussion, he's with the big club based on NH's assessment but that's the problem, it's a bad assessment. Or maybe he's the best option they have (that's sad).


He's out of options. That's why he's up. He's 24, has a 95 MPH fastball and what's regarded as a plus slider, so the chances of getting him down to the minors is nil.

They're basically treating him like a Rule 5 pick. He's a starter so they aren't treating him like a reliever....but he's not a starter either. They're just trying to make it through the year without losing him.

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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:31 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
I guess Stolmy is good for discussion, he's with the big club based on NH's assessment but that's the problem, it's a bad assessment. Or maybe he's the best option they have (that's sad).


He's out of options. That's why he's up. He's 24, has a 95 MPH fastball and what's regarded as a plus slider, so the chances of getting him down to the minors is nil.

They're basically treating him like a Rule 5 pick. He's a starter so they aren't treating him like a reliever....but he's not a starter either. They're just trying to make it through the year without losing him.


In other words, there's no depth in the system with pitching that is ready to replace him. It doesn't matter, the pitching got them there last year. This year it's more like a goldfish tank.


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 Post subject: Re: Mental vs Physical
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:

Pimental...Charlie Morton...maybe they have the skills...the stuff...but do they have the mental toughness?.


Seriously? You are lumping Pimental and Morton together!?!! Look, Morton isn't Cy Young but he is perfectly fine in his role as a #3 starter. A 3.62 ERA (FIP of 3.77), WHIP of around 1.2, only 9 HR allowed in 150 innings.

I realize that is just your opinion, but dude...be somewhat reasonable with your comparisons!


When the hell did someone claim Morton to be number 3 quality? Been trying to figure this out. He's league average #3 starter or he's a pirate #3 starter?


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