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 Post subject: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:32 pm 
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So according to Perrotto, Gorzo's 2007 got to him. During the winter he got lazy, he got fat. He reported to camp with elbow issues that he would try to pitch through, playing down the severity to our med staff.

Now he says hes been humbled and realizes you have to keep working hard even after youve enjoyed a first taste of ML success (Duh, genius).

Well, hes lost the weight, claims the elbow feels ok, and Kerrigan is optimistic. Are you? I think we're looking at a nice comeback year.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
So according to Perrotto, Gorzo's 2007 got to him. During the winter he got lazy, he got fat. He reported to camp with elbow issues that he would try to pitch through, playing down the severity to our med staff.

Now he says hes been humbled and realizes you have to keep working hard even after youve enjoyed a first taste of ML success (Duh, genius).

Well, hes lost the weight, claims the elbow feels ok, and Kerrigan is optimistic. Are you? I think we're looking at a nice comeback year.


Alot of us here had concerns about him going into the season last year because of Tracy's handling him late in the season to try to save his job...

I've been impressed with the team's focus on fitness and nothing proved it more than Doumit's change in appearance...

I think Gorzo is going to have a good season

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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Hope so. If he does, we will have a much better season. At least less painful.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:55 pm 
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He has to do better, he trained really hard this offseason... :D

I believe the players fitness level ranks higher than OPS and OBP combined!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
I believe the players fitness level ranks higher than OPS and OBP combined!! :D


Unless you're name is Adam Dunn

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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
So according to Perrotto, Gorzo's 2007 got to him. During the winter he got lazy, he got fat. He reported to camp with elbow issues that he would try to pitch through, playing down the severity to our med staff.

Now he says hes been humbled and realizes you have to keep working hard even after youve enjoyed a first taste of ML success (Duh, genius).

Well, hes lost the weight, claims the elbow feels ok, and Kerrigan is optimistic. Are you? I think we're looking at a nice comeback year.


In my humble opinion he is the pitcher with the most potential. I still think he can be a consistent 200-225 IP 15-20 game winner. Tracy ran him into the ground two years ago and it was easy to see his arm wasn't right at all last year. Being out of shape just compounded things. Seems like he got his head on straight, worked hard, and has his arm feeling good. I'm really anxious to see him this year. I really think he is a good one.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
He has to do better, he trained really hard this offseason... :D

I believe the players fitness level ranks higher than OPS and OBP combined!! :D


Uh oh. Intangibles. We're on our way to 75 pages!


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:09 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Kingston wrote:
So according to Perrotto, Gorzo's 2007 got to him. During the winter he got lazy, he got fat. He reported to camp with elbow issues that he would try to pitch through, playing down the severity to our med staff.

Now he says hes been humbled and realizes you have to keep working hard even after youve enjoyed a first taste of ML success (Duh, genius).

Well, hes lost the weight, claims the elbow feels ok, and Kerrigan is optimistic. Are you? I think we're looking at a nice comeback year.


In my humble opinion he is the pitcher with the most potential. I still think he can be a consistent 200-225 IP 15-20 game winner. Tracy ran him into the ground two years ago and it was easy to see his arm wasn't right at all last year. Being out of shape just compounded things. Seems like he got his head on straight, worked hard, and has his arm feeling good. I'm really anxious to see him this year. I really think he is a good one.


Look, let me take my "enabler" position and say that Snell and Gorzo are going to rebound. Both of these guys have the "stuff" but both were hampered by their lack of confidence and weak mental preparedness. From everything I read about Kerrington he will have these guys prepared physically and mentally.

Please do not misrepresent my position, Kerrington is no miracle worker, but at least he will have them prepared and its up to the pitchers and whatever talent they have to succeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 pm 
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I also believe Maholm, Snell, and Gorzo will all have decent years, 32 starts, around 200 innings, ERA under 4. Wins are hard to project. Snell needs to OWN the inside half of the plate. The one I have my doubts about is Duke. Too much hard contact.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:10 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
I also believe Maholm, Snell, and Gorzo will all have decent years, 32 starts, around 200 innings, ERA under 4. Wins are hard to project. Snell needs to OWN the inside half of the plate. The one I have my doubts about is Duke. Too much hard contact.


Duke is a big concern as is the 5th spot as to who is it going to be...Karstens, Olhendorf, McCutchen?

I'm not worried, though, about finding a replacement in Duke if Phil Dumtrait can get healthy and be ready by May...I'd give Duke a month to see what he can do before moves or role changes need to be addressed with him...

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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Will Gorzellany be better in 2009 than he was in 2008? Yes, I believe so. His performance in AAA showed that he can still pitch.

Will he be as good in 2009 as he was in 2007? That is a different question. I just do not see him throwing 200 innings, with an ERA south of 3.90. If he does perform in 2009 like he did in 2007, then it would be tantamount to the Pirates acquiring a solid number 2 starter this year.

And by the way - Dumatrait is coming off an injury that ruined last year. He pitched very well as a starter in May. He was dealing at 92-93 mph, with location, and his breaking ball was solid. If he can deal like that again, he is going to be in the rotation.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:32 pm 
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To me it's not even close...Gorzo is a far better pitcher than Dutramait. Bucfan, the way you described Dutramait is exactly the way Gorzo pitched in 2007. And more than one scout also said they thought Gorzo was the real deal. I personally would never count on Dutramait. I'm not sure he will even stay on the roster all year. I hope I'm wrong and both pitch great.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:39 pm 
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I think bucfan was talking about Phil taking either Duke's spot or the 5th spot of the rotation once he's healthy

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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:58 pm 
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I think Gorzo can bounce back, but he will not have a 2007-like season. I am thinking he will be somewhere in between last year and 2007, but good enough to keep him in the rotation all season. Many guys seem to have adjusted to his style since his rookie year, but maybe he can put together some consistency. I think Maholm will take a step back slightly, only because he will not be lucky as last year. He never seemed to pitch differently to me the whole the time he has been here, sometime guys just get lucky hits off him. I think Snell can improve as well, but only to something like his 2006 numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:25 am 
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PirateParrot wrote:
To me it's not even close...Gorzo is a far better pitcher than Dutramait. Bucfan, the way you described Dutramait is exactly the way Gorzo pitched in 2007.

Dumatrait is a potential number 2 or number 3 starter. He was a first-round pick who did not pan out, but with the Pirates last year he showed his potential. His velocity, sharp breaking ball, and ability to hit 92 mph in the 7th inning make him a genuine prospect to upgrade the rotation.

nad69dan wrote:
I think bucfan was talking about Phil taking either Duke's spot or the 5th spot of the rotation once he's healthy

Exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Gorzo Bounce Back?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:39 am 
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I am having a hard time believing Dumatrait will ever stay healthy at this point. I do think Gorzo will bounce back, along with the other younger pitchers who need to mature. Don't ask me where they will fall in terms of No. 1 to No. 5. That, I am convinced, is a crapshoot that is decided by a cosmic collision of stuff, luck, health, and mental toughness.

I do think Duke can be valuable because 1. he's LH, 2. IF he's regained that little extra oomphf to his breaking stuff, and 3. Jack, Freddy, Nate are all healthy behind him. See cosmos above.

ZM

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