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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:59 pm 
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They also traded Millone for Fuld, a little more OF depth.


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:09 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
TheShark wrote:
urbman21 wrote:
Pirates will remain a Division Series playoff team for the next 5 years. Unreal.


You mean like the team you are praising (Oakland) has been for the last 15 years?

Winning a WS is not exactly easy.


That's why he's doing it. He got tired of being a first round playoff team. You have to make bold decisions to win it all or at least to have a chance to. That's the price you pay. You'll never win a WS playing it safe. Just won't happen.



What was the bold move the Red Sox made last year?

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:10 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
What was the bold move the Red Sox made last year?

They let "Papi" play 1st base for an inning.


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Tigers tried to one-up them, but the Billy Beane is clearly in 'F it!' mode.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:00 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
Bye bye Angels and the rest of the American League.

And the Pirates get to keep their 6,000 prospects - awesome. Now we get to wait for Josh Bell to come up and get good just as Cutch's window is closing. Pirates will remain a Division Series playoff team for the next 5 years. Unreal.

Wait a second while I grab my violin so's I can play you a sad song. Better go grab a hanky in the meantime.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:04 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
TheShark wrote:
urbman21 wrote:
Pirates will remain a Division Series playoff team for the next 5 years. Unreal.


You mean like the team you are praising (Oakland) has been for the last 15 years?

Winning a WS is not exactly easy.


That's why he's doing it. He got tired of being a first round playoff team. You have to make bold decisions to win it all or at least to have a chance to. That's the price you pay. You'll never win a WS playing it safe. Just won't happen.

Billy Beane is on record as saying that you do everything you can to make they playoff, but everything after that is a coin toss. He made these deals to win the division. He HOPES to win a World Series. And the main reason he made these trades is because he knows that his window pretty much closes after this season. Not so for the Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Still waiting to hear the bold moves that World Series teams Boston and St. Louis made last year, as they needed to make them to get there.

Though I do remember the Angels making a splash for Zach Grienke and just cruising to the World Series.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:39 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
Still waiting to hear the bold moves that World Series teams Boston and St. Louis made last year, as they needed to make them to get there.

Though I do remember the Angels making a splash for Zach Grienke and just cruising to the World Series.


:)

The Sox did trade for Jake Peavy last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:49 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
The Sox did trade away Jake Peavy this year.

Fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:55 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Billy Beane is on record as saying that you do everything you can to make they playoff, but everything after that is a coin toss. He made these deals to win the division. He HOPES to win a World Series. And the main reason he made these trades is because he knows that his window pretty much closes after this season. Not so for the Pirates.


This.

My lord, I've agreed with Sisyphus twice in one day! :shock:

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:00 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Billy Beane is on record as saying that you do everything you can to make they playoff, but everything after that is a coin toss. He made these deals to win the division. He HOPES to win a World Series. And the main reason he made these trades is because he knows that his window pretty much closes after this season. Not so for the Pirates.


Why does Oakland's window "pretty much close[]" after this season? He has a LOT of guys still under contract for 2015, including his star guys and pitchers like Samardzija, Kazmir, and Gray. He has a demonstrated ability to improve his big-league team through trades. He isn't hampered by bad contracts.

So tell me, why in the world does Oakland's window close after 2014?


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:02 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Billy Beane is on record as saying that you do everything you can to make they playoff, but everything after that is a coin toss. He made these deals to win the division. He HOPES to win a World Series. And the main reason he made these trades is because he knows that his window pretty much closes after this season. Not so for the Pirates.


Why does Oakland's window "pretty much close[]" after this season? He has a LOT of guys still under contract for 2015, including his star guys and pitchers like Samardzija, Kazmir, and Gray. He has a demonstrated ability to improve his big-league team through trades. He isn't hampered by bad contracts.

So tell me, why in the world does Oakland's window close after 2014?


It's post-2015 that people are pointing to as the year it'll get tough for them. Although maybe that perspective changes with Cespedes for Lester. I still think they'll be pretty good next year, though. Only losing Lowrie, really.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:08 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Why does Oakland's window "pretty much close[]" after this season? He has a LOT of guys still under contract for 2015, including his star guys and pitchers like Samardzija, Kazmir, and Gray. He has a demonstrated ability to improve his big-league team through trades. He isn't hampered by bad contracts.

So tell me, why in the world does Oakland's window close after 2014?



This is something that has been written about several times by national types. I think Beane is dealing with a combination of "career years", age, and UFA time with his core players. Sort of a perfect baseball storm in the next year or so. It is win now, cause you are going into rebuild mode in a year or two.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Yeah, 2016 is the tough year.

I wouldn't want to count on 2016 Crisp, 2016 Reddick, 2016 whatever pitching is left, and 2016 catcher platoon like they are now.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:09 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Why does Oakland's window "pretty much close[]" after this season? He has a LOT of guys still under contract for 2015, including his star guys and pitchers like Samardzija, Kazmir, and Gray. He has a demonstrated ability to improve his big-league team through trades. He isn't hampered by bad contracts.

So tell me, why in the world does Oakland's window close after 2014?



This is something that has been written about several times by national types. I think Beane is dealing with a combination of "career years", age, and UFA time with his core players. Sort of a perfect baseball storm in the next year or so. It is win now, cause you are going into rebuild mode in a year or two.

ZM



Boston won on a perfect storm of career years last year (or close to them) sandwiched by awful years, so quite possibly. I also would be leery of depending on guys like Scott Kazmir next year.

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Last edited by SUPERCHARGED APE on Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:11 pm 
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I'm not gonna say definitively that there's a right or wrong way to do this. Me personally, I would have kept my prospects (though if Price was in play, hypothetically, and it took a better offer than TB got, I'd have done it). But I get that it's at least somewhat opinion either way.

However, the doom and gloom types that do this same song and dance that the team isn't trying and needs to sell off young kids to have any hope of competing this year and that the season is over now are crazy. And annoying.

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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:16 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
You'll never win a WS playing it safe. Just won't happen.
So you think that Pirates had 0% chance of winning last year?


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:29 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Billy Beane is on record as saying that you do everything you can to make they playoff, but everything after that is a coin toss. He made these deals to win the division. He HOPES to win a World Series.

I agree with BB here (and speculate he means winning the division) -- because being the wild card cuts your chances of winning the WS in half.

At first blush, trading away 1.5 years of Cespedes for .5 years of Lester would decrease the A's chances of winning the division next year more than it increases it this year, but it depends on the delta between Lester and other A's pitchers, and the delta between Cespedes and his replacement, which I don't claim to know.

Likely, it was a calculated decision, but he'll get credit for having cajones grandes.


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:39 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Why does Oakland's window "pretty much close[]" after this season? ... So tell me, why in the world does Oakland's window close after 2014?

I'm a little worried about that whole "Mayan calendar" thing now.

Maybe it runs until December 31, 2014? And Beane is the only GM who knows about this?


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 Post subject: Re: Twitter Report: Lester Traded To The A's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:52 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I'm not gonna say definitively that there's a right or wrong way to do this. Me personally, I would have kept my prospects (though if Price was in play, hypothetically, and it took a better offer than TB got, I'd have done it). But I get that it's at least somewhat opinion either way.

However, the doom and gloom types that do this same song and dance that the team isn't trying and needs to sell off young kids to have any hope of competing this year and that the season is over now are crazy. And annoying.


It seems like a whole lot of the fanbase was ready to give up really good prospects for the sake of making a move. I think it's also lost on some that the Pirates probably (hopefully) won't be in a position to build up the top, top end organizational depth through the draft for a good period of time. We'll be seeing lots of Cole Tucker types and very few Austin Meadows, Reese McGuire, Jameson Taillon, Gerrit Cole, etc... types. Granted, guys like Kingham and Glasnow weren't 1st rounders but the point remains.


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