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 Post subject: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Big trades......that involve giving up 3 to 4 high end prospects in the system to land aces like Price or Lester. I've been a fan of a team since the late 80s and I don't remember the bucs being in a position where they're talked about as having the strongest minor league system. Its truly amazing what this organization has done from where they were. Cough, the last GM brought in Cutch and Walker. Building pieces.

So my question. As someone who's anxious to see an ace added should I be excited to see the team I root for land that ace and give up the ? Also knowing that ace won't be resigned. Or should I be upset to see the prospects go, proud, to see how the talent has grown up and down the system? I don't know, I think I'm going to be excited and disappointed either way. Maybe a championship will be the answer. He he.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:53 pm 
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The Pirates cannot afford to sign an ace, and therefore must develop their own. Trading six years of a potential ace in Taillon for two months of Jon Lester is not a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:54 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Big trades......that involve giving up 3 to 4 high end prospects in the system to land aces like Price or Lester. I've been a fan of a team since the late 80s and I don't remember the bucs being in a position where they're talked about as having the strongest minor league system. Its truly amazing what this organization has done from where they were. Cough, the last GM brought in Cutch and Walker. Building pieces.

So my question. As someone who's anxious to see an ace added should I be excited to see the team I root for land that ace and give up the ? Also knowing that ace won't be resigned. Or should I be upset to see the prospects go, proud, to see how the talent has grown up and down the system? I don't know, I think I'm going to be excited and disappointed either way. Maybe a championship will be the answer. He he.

I think that Liriano is showing that they already have an ace.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:33 pm 
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They could already have two aces, provided Cole comes back strong. I read on trade rumors that the Pirates are not going to deal any of Taillon/Kingham/Glasnow/Bell/Meadows, but would trade Hansen or Jones. And that seemed very sensible to me. Neal Huntington isn't gambling with the guys who have the most upside for his club. He isn't making aggressive trades just to say "we're trying to win it all!" like fans and local radio personalities want him to. The Cardinals went and got Masterson, so they must not have been interested in dealing top prospects for a rental of Lester, either, and they were one of the frontrunners.

You can say "We're finally in a position to deal top prospects" but we really are not. Do you see the Rays doing that? That's not how a team with the Pirates financial situation stay competitive. They stay competitive by trading guys like Dilson Herrera and Vic Black for a Marlon Byrd. Not by dealing some of their top 5 prospects for rentals. The only situation I could see dealing a Josh Bell and change for, would maybe be Price, since we'd have him next year too, correct?

We have the strongest minor league system, but guess what? We need that system for the future. Russell Martin is probably gone. We have no first baseman to speak of. We have a power hitting third baseman who can't make a throw to first or hit for power. Starling Marte has two concussions this year, what could two more mean to him next year? Frankie Liriano is gone next year. We can't throw away the future of this franchise for rentals, especially pitching prospects because we're really going to need them.

So yeah, it would be exciting to see Jon Lester in Pittsburgh, but it's just not logical for our situation, unless the Sox would take a guy like Hansen.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:00 pm 
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This post is false advertising.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:03 pm 
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I believe that the Bucs only real chance of sustained success is to hit on some of these lottery tickets. Which is why I don't want to give too many of them away.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:47 pm 
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Thanks. Informative. So in a nutshell don't trade top prospects for high talented rental pieces at the July deadline.

Save them for players down the road if current major league players are struggling or not considered long term any longer.

I was curious. I'm sure not all of them will turn out or they'll be blocked.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Teams like the Pirates can't afford to make those kinds of moves. They have to assume their top prospects, assumibgly they're actually top prospects, are going to work out. Trading them away for short fixes is the best way to kill the future of the ball club.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:01 pm 
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The difference between big and small market teams in todays game is the size of TV deals?

Just read a report on trade rumors bucs are the front runner for Lester.

Dodgers are involved. I just can't see how the bucs could be leading when the dodgers can give up what they want and pay for players to fill holes later.


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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:05 pm 
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I think it's that the Pirates have a decent amount of mid-level prospects. Pretty much all of the teams have wised up and won't deal elite guys for a rental. Top much data out there about how little a rental actually helps in reality.

Dodgers have made their top 3 guys unavailable, and don't have all that much beyond them. Pirates have some solid prospects behind their untouchables.

Probably also helps that the Dodgers appear to have a nice core under control for a while. No need to act irrationally and capitalize on a 1-2 year window.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:06 am 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Thanks. Informative. So in a nutshell don't trade top prospects for high talented rental pieces at the July deadline.

Save them for players down the road if current major league players are struggling or not considered long term any longer.

I was curious. I'm sure not all of them will turn out or they'll be blocked.



Well, some people disagree and think the Bucs should do more buying. As far as I know, it's still largely a matter of opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:08 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Top much data out there about how little a rental actually helps in reality.




Do you have any links or anything? Because I'd like to see it, as it probably backs up my thoughts.

I think "you have to add a piece at the deadline!" is just an old cliche that is accepted as truth just because.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Trade
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:51 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
Thanks. Informative. So in a nutshell don't trade top prospects for high talented rental pieces at the July deadline.

Save them for players down the road if current major league players are struggling or not considered long term any longer.

I was curious. I'm sure not all of them will turn out or they'll be blocked.



Well, some people disagree and think the Bucs should do more buying. As far as I know, it's still largely a matter of opinion.


Interesting take. I want the bucs to be good for a long time. Not just some three year wonder as it was when I was a young teenager. Alot of terrible years followed. I'm sure all of us are hoping for long term sustainability. Its awesome the depth this organization has been able to put together. Not all the prospects have turned out, all the over slotted signings but regardless its still respected and well represented.

Obviously the whole thing has been built for sustainability long term. Impressive in its own right there are still holes needed to get that championship. That's what we want right? Or luck.


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