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 Post subject: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:53 am 
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I can remember when all of these players went thru what Pedro's is going thru now.
Sax and Blass retired, Ankiel became an outfielder. What is to become of Pedro?

On another subject, seems to me the Pirates don't score much in the early innings. Is
there a way to see where they stand in the league with runs scored each inning?
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:22 am 
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Well, I can at least give you my opinion on Pedro. I'm also sure you're correct about the lack of run scoring early in games by the Pirates although I don't have any data handy to support that.

For the remainder of this season:

1.) Start Pedro only against RHP and keep him on the Bench against LHP. When that occurs, start Harrison at 3B. Pedro can be a long ball threat coming off the Bench later in those games when and if an opposing RLP takes the mound.

2.) When Pedro does start games against RHP, hope and pray (while Pedro continues to work on his throws to 1B) that he doesn't throw the ball away.

Now...to switch Pedro to 1B would be a difficult move (especially during midseason like this season...although I believe that would be the only cure for Pedro's throwing errors).

If you want to eliminate Pedro's throwing errors entirely to 1B then you would have to move him to 1B...IMHO...at least starting next year.

Also, I was wrong in my initial analysis of Pedro. The guy is a homerun hitter. A dead pull homerun hitter. Hitting for a higher average is not what this guy's all about...IMHO. When he does come to the plate, swing for the fences Pedro! If he does run into a ball he can drive to the opposite field for an extra base hit or a homerun then so be it. All the more the better. But he is more all about pulling the ball and hitting the ball over the fence most of the times...so do it.

I have no solution for Pedro against LHP except if you want to start him against LHP accept (most of the times) the ugly swings and K's. When you have a player like Harrison, I see no reason why he (Harrison) can't start against LHP while Pedro becomes a bench threat for later in those games (like I said before).

And finally, IF Pedro does move to 1B, maybe he'll become more relaxed as a defender which would (I can only imagine) help him become even more relaxed at the plate.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:44 am 
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IMOKRU wrote:
On another subject, seems to me the Pirates don't score much in the early innings. Is
there a way to see where they stand in the league with runs scored each inning?
Thanks.


Here's a link to their inning by inning splits: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams ... &year=2014

Not a league comparison but it shows in what innings the Pirates have scored this year.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:54 am 
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Thanks, what a web site. First inning not as bad as I thought. Third highest in nine innings.

Remember the movie Major League with Charlie Sheen, second one I think, the catcher could not throw the ball back to the pitcher. They had him talk about adds he had read from the Victoria Secret catalog. That's all Pedro needs. A good magazine.


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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:29 am 
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Great Website No. 9. The Bucs scoring runs per Inning is pretty much balanced the entire game...more so than I thought...the 2nd and 9th Innings being the lowest.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:30 am 
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Pedro Alvarez now has 23 errors. He simply cannot be trusted at third base anymore. He's not getting better. Period.

I think he has to be removed from close games from the 7th inning on at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:07 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Pedro Alvarez now has 23 errors. He simply cannot be trusted at third base anymore. He's not getting better. Period.

I think he has to be removed from close games from the 7th inning on at this point.


I wonder how many more bad throws he's had to 1st that the Pirates 1st basemen were able to get to?

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:29 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
I wonder how many more bad throws he's had to 1st that the Pirates 1st basemen were able to get to?


Dan -
That's an excellent question. Last year we debated what, if any, defensive value brought to the table by Morneau over Jones and whether defense from a first baseman should be a topic of concern. I distinctly remember the value that the Cubs obtained from Mark Grace as he reeled in poor throw after poor throw after poor throw from Shawon Dunston.

I don't think that Sanchez or Davis have iron gloves but they also aren't wowing me with their play in the field.

- 9

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:31 am 
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IMOKRU wrote:
I can remember when all of these players went thru what Pedro's is going thru now.
Sax and Blass retired, Ankiel became an outfielder. What is to become of Pedro?

On another subject, seems to me the Pirates don't score much in the early innings. Is
there a way to see where they stand in the league with runs scored each inning?
Thanks.

I'm guessing that what happens to Pedro is that he becomes one heckuva first baseman. Steve Garvey was a third baseman in the Dodgers system, and he had what was possible the worst arm I have ever seen. He moved to first in the majors and had a fine career. First basemen who have the range of a third baseman are exceptional.

I wish I could say that Pedro will work out his problems, but I just don't see much precedent for that. It's a shame, because he had one of the best arms of any third baseman I've ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:38 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Pedro Alvarez now has 23 errors. He simply cannot be trusted at third base anymore. He's not getting better. Period.

I think he has to be removed from close games from the 7th inning on at this point.

Hard to argue with that. It's in his head, and I don't see any signs that he's getting over it.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:39 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Pedro Alvarez now has 23 errors. He simply cannot be trusted at third base anymore. He's not getting better. Period.

I think he has to be removed from close games from the 7th inning on at this point.

Hard to argue with that. It's in his head, and I don't see any signs that he's getting over it.


And it sucks because making that move means he can't win games late with his power. Lose-lose for the Pirates.


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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:39 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I wonder how many more bad throws he's had to 1st that the Pirates 1st basemen were able to get to?


Dan -
That's an excellent question. Last year we debated what, if any, defensive value brought to the table by Morneau over Jones and whether defense from a first baseman should be a topic of concern. I distinctly remember the value that the Cubs obtained from Mark Grace as he reeled in poor throw after poor throw after poor throw from Shawon Dunston.

I don't think that Sanchez or Davis have iron gloves but they also aren't wowing me with their play in the field.

- 9

I don't know, No. 9, when Pedro gets an error it's usually a throw that even Shaq couldn't reach.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:44 am 
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It is to the point now where I am truly starting to feel bad for Pedro. Is there anything worse for an athlete than being absolutely embarrassed? A lot of people call him a bum and say how horrible he is. I truly believe that this is nothing more than a physcological problem. On plays where he has to dive left or right, or when he has to throw on the run, it usually is a bullet right at the first basemen. Imagine yourself at your profession just simply not being able to a simple task. This has to be eating away at him and everybody calling for his head obviously isn't helping. I'm sure that nobody feels worse about this than Pedro. I have always rooted for Pedro, obviously because he was on the Pirates, but I have never hoped for the best out of him more than I am now.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:53 am 
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From the "Trying to Find a Silver Lining" Department:

Remember the discussion about Pedro (and Borass) likely fighting a move to 1B because it would undermine his FA value? Well . . . if he doesn't get past this mental hurdle, there's a chance that he may actually embrace a switch across the diamond.

On a sidenote, I've been as hard on Pedro as just about any poster on this Board for many years now but I've gotten to the point where I am feeling incredibly sorry for him. The "throwing demons" that must be floating in his head right now must be awful to live with.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:56 am 
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TheTimeIsNow wrote:
It is to the point now where I am truly starting to feel bad for Pedro. Is there anything worse for an athlete than being absolutely embarrassed? A lot of people call him a bum and say how horrible he is. I truly believe that this is nothing more than a physcological problem. On plays where he has to dive left or right, or when he has to throw on the run, it usually is a bullet right at the first basemen. Imagine yourself at your profession just simply not being able to a simple task. This has to be eating away at him and everybody calling for his head obviously isn't helping. I'm sure that nobody feels worse about this than Pedro. I have always rooted for Pedro, obviously because he was on the Pirates, but I have never hoped for the best out of him more than I am now.

I can understand how he feels. Back in my younger days I was an avid golfer who could hit the ball a mile off of the tee, but I had a slice that left me one or two fairways to the right of the one I was aiming at. I knew exactly what I was doing wrong, but I couldn't stop doing it. I ended up just leaving my driver and three wood at home for fear of killing somebody.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:58 am 
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There is no recovery from Blass Disease. The best is that you change position. Think Dale Murphy and Bobby Bonilla.

More reason I would move Pedro to 1b or to the AL as DH now.

His offensive numbers are not going to offset his "runs allowed" or maybe "extra outs given away" numbers.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:05 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
TheTimeIsNow wrote:
It is to the point now where I am truly starting to feel bad for Pedro. Is there anything worse for an athlete than being absolutely embarrassed? A lot of people call him a bum and say how horrible he is. I truly believe that this is nothing more than a physcological problem. On plays where he has to dive left or right, or when he has to throw on the run, it usually is a bullet right at the first basemen. Imagine yourself at your profession just simply not being able to a simple task. This has to be eating away at him and everybody calling for his head obviously isn't helping. I'm sure that nobody feels worse about this than Pedro. I have always rooted for Pedro, obviously because he was on the Pirates, but I have never hoped for the best out of him more than I am now.

I can understand how he feels. Back in my younger days I was an avid golfer who could hit the ball a mile off of the tee, but I had a slice that left me one or two fairways to the right of the one I was aiming at. I knew exactly what I was doing wrong, but I couldn't stop doing it. I ended up just leaving my driver and three wood at home for fear of killing somebody.


Now just think of that frustration that you felt and image how much worse you would feel if that was your way of life, and that millions of people were watching you, and there were 24 other guys that it affected as well.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:06 pm 
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TheTimeIsNow wrote:
Now just think of that frustration that you felt and image how much worse you would feel if that was your way of life, and that millions of people were watching you, and there were 24 other guys that it affected as well.

Exactly. At least it was just a pastime for me, not my job, and ESPN wasn't following me around with cameras.

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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:37 pm 
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How many errors did Ed Sprague have the year he was here? I remember him having some throwing issues but I don't believe it was as bad as it has gotten with Alvarez...And I am pretty sure he hit for a better average with a little pop in his bat...


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 Post subject: Re: SAX - BLASS - ANKIEL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:09 pm 
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I read somewhere that the previous MLB record for throwing errors by a third baseman was 18. He's historically bad this year and it could be argued that it borders on cruel if he can't right the ship quickly.

If he was in NY, ESPN would have a daily error watch going. It's only a matter of time before someone runs with the story and the noose will only tighten.

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