Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:11 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 3173
Location: Darlington, Pennsylvania
Well i either think 2 years 20 million for Dunn is either too high or 1 year 5 million for Abreau is too low because i think with Dunn striking out as much as he does these two players are very close to eachother.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:11 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 637
I know this will sound incredibly naive, but is there anything wrong with signing a good hitter even for years we arent going to contend? We're still a major league team, afterall. Anything wrong with actually trying to win as many games as possible? Or going Kiner and giving the fans a little excitement? Clearly, thats what DC is doing.

I get the point about not taking PT away from a future "stud", so maybe thats the answer to my own question and Ill patiently wait for Cutch and Co. But after so many posts that said it wasnt smart to sign a guy who wouldnt be around in a few years when it mattered, (and if memory serves, I offered a few of those myself), it just got me wondering what would be so terrible about simply trying to be more competitive.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Kingston wrote:
I know this will sound incredibly naive, but is there anything wrong with signing a good hitter even for years we arent going to contend? We're still a major league team, afterall. Anything wrong with actually trying to win as many games as possible? Or going Kiner and giving the fans a little excitement? Clearly, thats what DC is doing.

I get the point about not taking PT away from a future "stud", so maybe thats the answer to my own question and Ill patiently wait for Cutch and Co. But after so many posts that said it wasnt smart to sign a guy who wouldnt be around in a few years when it mattered, (and if memory serves, I offered a few of those myself), it just got me wondering what would be so terrible about simply trying to be more competitive.

Because there is absolutely no value in achieving mediocrity. See the link below:
http://www.squawkingbaseball.com/?p=396

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:33 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 637
Willton wrote:
Kingston wrote:
I know this will sound incredibly naive, but is there anything wrong with signing a good hitter even for years we arent going to contend? We're still a major league team, afterall. Anything wrong with actually trying to win as many games as possible? Or going Kiner and giving the fans a little excitement? Clearly, thats what DC is doing.

I get the point about not taking PT away from a future "stud", so maybe thats the answer to my own question and Ill patiently wait for Cutch and Co. But after so many posts that said it wasnt smart to sign a guy who wouldnt be around in a few years when it mattered, (and if memory serves, I offered a few of those myself), it just got me wondering what would be so terrible about simply trying to be more competitive.

Because there is absolutely no value in achieving mediocrity. See the link below:
http://www.squawkingbaseball.com/?p=396


THAT... is a great article and makes total sense. At first blush it seems counterintuitive to try to do worse, yet there seems to be no arguing its long term benefits (as long as we start drafting guys in the 2nd round that we actually sign).

Thanks, Willton.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:54 pm
Posts: 941
Kingston wrote:
I know this will sound incredibly naive, but is there anything wrong with signing a good hitter even for years we arent going to contend? We're still a major league team, afterall. Anything wrong with actually trying to win as many games as possible? Or going Kiner and giving the fans a little excitement? Clearly, thats what DC is doing.

I get the point about not taking PT away from a future "stud", so maybe thats the answer to my own question and Ill patiently wait for Cutch and Co. But after so many posts that said it wasnt smart to sign a guy who wouldnt be around in a few years when it mattered, (and if memory serves, I offered a few of those myself), it just got me wondering what would be so terrible about simply trying to be more competitive.

Because if all he represents is the bullet train from last to next-to-last, eh, what's the point? You'll just cue a whole new chorus of disgruntled hatas shrieking that the Pirates wasted money on a P.T. Barnum act.

Don't forget that Nats ownership is seriously under the gun to get people out to the new stadium — to the point that they were willing to toss $250M at Mark Teixeira for no good reason. Attendance has been abysmal — not much better than the franchise's Montreal days, and Selig and co. will have considerable egg on their face if MLB fails in D.C. yet again.

_________________
I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:39 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 637
Well, Willtons article makes the case that the poorer the results the better the picks which makes building from within that much easier.

Heres my question, tho; Ive never rooted against the Bucs in my life. As a fan, am I now to root for almost non-stop defeat, every victory potentially taking us farther away from our goals?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Kingston wrote:
Well, Willtons article makes the case that the poorer the results the better the picks which makes building from within that much easier.

Heres my question, tho; Ive never rooted against the Bucs in my life. As a fan, am I now to root for almost non-stop defeat, every victory potentially taking us farther away from our goals?

You root however you choose, although if you root for the Pirates to lose, I suggest you do it quietly. ;)

I root for the Pirates to win, as it would mean that the players are improving to the point that we're getting closer to being ready to compete. But I do not condone spending gobs of money in a Drive for 75.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:50 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 637
Willton wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Well, Willtons article makes the case that the poorer the results the better the picks which makes building from within that much easier.

Heres my question, tho; Ive never rooted against the Bucs in my life. As a fan, am I now to root for almost non-stop defeat, every victory potentially taking us farther away from our goals?



I root for the Pirates to win, as it would mean that the players are improving to the point that we're getting closer to being ready to compete.


Even if that improvement means the loss of a potential franchise player in the draft?

Look, you know me. When the Message Board votes on April 4th whether to root for or against the Pirates this year Ill abide by the decision. I just want whats best for the team and to understand the logic surrounding the best way to go about it. :D


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:12 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
That article sums up what many of us have been saying for a year+ now. Thanks for finding and sharing that.

We will of course root root, root for the home team, and if they don't win it's ok.

The Dunn thing was dumb and I'm glad it's over. Maybe the monsoon that brought them here has taken them to a better place to feed on new and fresh folks who will welcome their style.

Say goodbye boys.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:16 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Willton wrote:

I root for the Pirates to win, as it would mean that the players are improving to the point that we're getting closer to being ready to compete. But I do not condone spending gobs of money in a Drive for 75.


That is precisely what you root for. You root for each player to develop, for each player to maximize their value. Even players you dislike <Nyjer>, you root for them to improve. I certainly don't need an Adam Dunn to give me a reason to watch the Pirates. I won't root for them to lose, I will root for them to get better.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:33 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:48 am
Posts: 391
I've said before, I'll say it again. I like what the Nats are doing. I'm rather envious.

_________________
"What other businesses do you expect to lose money for your entertainment?"-- UPPMB


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:38 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
PirateParrot wrote:
At the risk of being tarred and feathered for the next 1,000 pages of this thread I just don't get why everyone is so jacked about this guy. He walks a lot. Sign him up. I mean he hits 40 HR's when he should probably hit 50. He K's at an alarming rate, and he can't play defense. Plus put him in a bad lineup like in Washington and the only thing he may do is walk and hit meaningless HR's. I never wanted this guy and I'm glad someone else is on the hook for him.


Like Argentum said, if the price was right, I'd love to have him also.

The argument with those bafoons was not whether or not we wanted him or considered him a good player or not, it was soley based on his value to the organization against his salary demands. What those children failed to see in any of our arguments was that we would have loved to have in in the fold for a reasonable price. I said 1 year for 7-8 Million, others said 2 years at 16 Million.

It was a simple argument that we won over and over, I love how they are bragging that they won the argument on their sight. You have to actually know what the argument is before you even have a possibility of winning it.

No PirateParrot, your not going to get tarred and feathered.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:00 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:48 am
Posts: 391
Jim Bowden's looking pretty good these days.

I guess what irritates me most about it is that they're not doing anything down there that we couldn't.
That is a clear example of the right way to rebuild your team. They're not standing pat until 2012.

Did I mention they also went after Teixiera? Might have mentioned that once or twice before.

_________________
"What other businesses do you expect to lose money for your entertainment?"-- UPPMB


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4235
Location: Zelienople, PA
He's doing it the DL way. He's ruining that franchise the way he ruined Cincy's.

Glad to see your a DL supporter though.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7275
A 2 year contract to a team with no pitching, for $20 million...Dunn is nothing but a carnival side show to put butts in the seats...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7275
After searching 78 pages the least objective poster found his link to Adam Dunn

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nation ... _dunn.html

Quote:
Here's the other factor in play: Will any A-list team make a run for Dunn?

Dunn's value, one AL exec told me today, "will fluctuate based on who has a need... so you have to figure out, Does a big-money team need him?"

Perhaps it's a bit premature to answer, only because Dunn could well remain unemployed until Manny Ramirez signs somewhere. Indeed, Dunn's true value might not emerge until the losers in the Manny sweepstakes determine how badly they want a 40-HR fallback option. But for now, I feel comfortable saying that no big market team seems like a true, head-over-heels suitor for Dunn. That's why Dunn just might end up in Washington, the one team that unequivocally wants the guy.


He didnt get his $14 million but he didnt get his $5 Million either...As no contending team looked willing to pay him that much

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:11 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 637
I cant imagine Dunn is happy at all. Hadda take less money, fewer years, and another crummy team. I think Id rather be Abreu, even at half the salary. These guys are all millionaires anyway, but they get so obsessed with squeezin out the last dime. Ill take 5 mil to have an exciting season on a contender rather than 10 to go thru the motions for 162.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:26 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Posts: 637
Heres what ESPN's Keith Law says about the signing (and itll sound very familiar)...


Developmental concerns aside, the big question for the Nationals is this: Why? Dunn won't be around long enough to be part of the first winning Nationals team. Even if Dunn has one of his best years, the Nationals are still the favorite to finish last in the NL East and unlikely to finish above fourth. As mentioned above, they have done a terrible job of using the trade market to restock their farm system -- a route that Oakland, Texas, and Cleveland have recently used to vault their systems into the top five in the game -- and the tepid market for Dunn this winter doesn't bode well for his trade value. Dunn didn't net a draft pick for Arizona, so there's no reason to assume the Nats will get a pick or two for him after 2010.

Dunn's contract becomes $20 million for a few meaningless wins over the next two years. Moves like that don't usually push a franchise backward, but they don't push it forward, either.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Kingston wrote:
Heres what ESPN's Keith Law says about the signing (and itll sound very familiar)...


Developmental concerns aside, the big question for the Nationals is this: Why? Dunn won't be around long enough to be part of the first winning Nationals team. Even if Dunn has one of his best years, the Nationals are still the favorite to finish last in the NL East and unlikely to finish above fourth. As mentioned above, they have done a terrible job of using the trade market to restock their farm system -- a route that Oakland, Texas, and Cleveland have recently used to vault their systems into the top five in the game -- and the tepid market for Dunn this winter doesn't bode well for his trade value. Dunn didn't net a draft pick for Arizona, so there's no reason to assume the Nats will get a pick or two for him after 2010.

Dunn's contract becomes $20 million for a few meaningless wins over the next two years. Moves like that don't usually push a franchise backward, but they don't push it forward, either.


Can we package this up and send it over to my good friend Alex P. Keaton err Penguin, or whoever he was?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Its DUNN!!!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:54 pm
Posts: 941
Piratefan13 wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Heres what ESPN's Keith Law says about the signing (and itll sound very familiar)...


Developmental concerns aside, the big question for the Nationals is this: Why? Dunn won't be around long enough to be part of the first winning Nationals team. Even if Dunn has one of his best years, the Nationals are still the favorite to finish last in the NL East and unlikely to finish above fourth. As mentioned above, they have done a terrible job of using the trade market to restock their farm system -- a route that Oakland, Texas, and Cleveland have recently used to vault their systems into the top five in the game -- and the tepid market for Dunn this winter doesn't bode well for his trade value. Dunn didn't net a draft pick for Arizona, so there's no reason to assume the Nats will get a pick or two for him after 2010.

Dunn's contract becomes $20 million for a few meaningless wins over the next two years. Moves like that don't usually push a franchise backward, but they don't push it forward, either.


Can we package this up and send it over to my good friend Alex P. Keaton err Penguin, or whoever he was?

CIA has already dismissed Law as unconscionably gay.

_________________
I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], No. 9, val and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits