Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:09 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: July 21, 2014 Dodgers (55-45) at Pirates (52-46)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:04 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:46 am
Posts: 3654
Location: Economy, PA
Yeah the bottom of the strike zone is pretty low nowadays, I think pretty close to the rulebook. And I think that's a good thing.

The top of the zone is much more subjective and variable.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: July 21, 2014 Dodgers (55-45) at Pirates (52-46)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5418
Location: Pittsburgh
No. 9 wrote:
Are calls missed? Absolutely. Without question.

However, to put the assumptions of the author in perspective, it is important to understand the difference between MLB's defined strike zone and Pitchf/x's strike zone.

MLB's strike zone is defined by Rule 2.0. It reads as follows:

The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

Pitchf/x's strike zone is different. It defines the strike zone not as an "area," but as a flat lineal plane. The lower level of the strike zone is not the line measured "at the hollow beneath the kneecap of the batter," but at 21.6 inches above the ground. The upper level of the strike zone is not the line measured at the "midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants" of the batter but at 40.8 inches above the ground.

It is clear that MLB's rules dictate a "floating" pentagonal prism-like strike zone that changes from batter to batter based upon that particular batter's physical characteristics.

So . . I measured my strike zone this morning. I'm slightly taller than 6'1". The measurement to the bottom of my kneecaps is 19 inches. The measurement to the midpoint between the top of my shoulders and the top of my pants is 45 inches. Thus, for me, Pitchf/x's estimate of my strike zone is off by 2.6 inches on the bottom of the zone and 4.2 inches on the top of the zone.

Doesn't seem like much does it? Well . . . let's see. According to Pitchf/x, the difference between the top and bottom of the strike zone is 19.2 inches. However, under MLB's rules, the difference between the top and bottom of my strike zone (measured as a 6'1" male) should be 26 inches. That's a difference of 6.8 inches. Using basic math, we can determine that - for me - Pitchf/x "shrinks" my strike zone by 26.1% from the top limit to the bottom limit.

Significant? I'll leave that up to you to decide.

However, I really do not think that it is debatable that there are circumstances in which Pitchf/x will deem a certain pitch to be a ball when it may fit within MLB's definition of a strike for a particular hitter. Further, there are circumstances in which Pitchf/x will deem a certain pitch to be a strike when it may be a ball for a particular hitter.

I also don't think that it is debatable that, under the current technology, Pitchf/x does not capture "strikes" that cross into the defined floating pentagonal prism but do not touch the front flat lineal plane of that prism. The extent to which it does not capture those strikes is unclear to me.

If MLB and its players want to employ Pitchf/x to define balls and strikes, the rule would have to be changed. Perhaps it should read:

The STRIKE ZONE is defined as a flat lineal plane located at the front of home plate which as an upper limit of 40.8 inches above the ground and a lower level at 20.6 inches above the ground. The Strike Zone is static and shall not vary from hitter to hitter.

If the rule was defined in that manner, the data in the article may be spot on (assuming that the cameras used for Pitchf/x are dead on accurate in their measurements and there is no margin of error in the analysis).

Otherwise, the data is skewed and conclusions based upon an incorrect assumption.

Its an interesting read and should not be disregarded. Not in the least. However, its limitations should be understood.

For all practical purposes, the strike zone IS a flat lineal plane. It's very nearly impossible to throw a ball that meets the MLB definition of a strike that would be called a ball by Pitch F/X. A sidearmer throwing a big sweeping breaking pitch from the throwing arm side of the rubber might be able pull it off. An typical pitcher? I doubt if it happens 10 times in an entire season. Also, you can always redefine the strike zone. It's been done at least three time in my lifetime, a fourth wouldn't be a big deal.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: July 21, 2014 Dodgers (55-45) at Pirates (52-46)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5809
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
sisyphus wrote:
For all practical purposes, the strike zone IS a flat lineal plane. It's very nearly impossible to throw a ball that meets the MLB definition of a strike that would be called a ball by Pitch F/X. A sidearmer throwing a big sweeping breaking pitch from the throwing arm side of the rubber might be able pull it off. An typical pitcher? I doubt if it happens 10 times in an entire season. Also, you can always redefine the strike zone. It's been done at least three time in my lifetime, a fourth wouldn't be a big deal.


Boy . . . I don't know about that. Not difficult for me to envision a cut fast ball missing that front plane and tailing into the strike zone or a slider which misses the front plane and cuts into the strike zone.

And . . . as I've attempted to show, a fastball located 45 inches above the ground over the middle of the plate to a 6'1" batter would be a strike under MLB's definition. It would show as a ball in the Pitch f/x data.

You can certainly redefine the strike zone. Not arguing against it or for it. Simply pointing out that Pitchf/x doesn't measure MLB's strike zone and any attempt to characterize "miss" rates by using Pitchf/x should acknowledge the limits on the technology.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: July 21, 2014 Dodgers (55-45) at Pirates (52-46)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5418
Location: Pittsburgh
No. 9 wrote:
Boy . . . I don't know about that. Not difficult for me to envision a cut fast ball missing that front plane and tailing into the strike zone or a slider which misses the front plane and cuts into the strike zone.

And . . . as I've attempted to show, a fastball located 45 inches above the ground over the middle of the plate to a 6'1" batter would be a strike under MLB's definition. It would show as a ball in the Pitch f/x data.


Could be, but I think it's unlikely to happen much, if at all, and I REALLY doubt an umpire's ability to detect the difference between a pitch that misses the front of the plate but nicks the side of the strike zone and one that misses it entirely. Let's face it, umps have a very tough job, and the toughest part of it is calling balls and strikes by the rule book. They're just not very good at it, and if we don't have the technology today that would take that job away from them, we'll have it very soon.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: July 21, 2014 Dodgers (55-45) at Pirates (52-46)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:35 am 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4234
Location: Zelienople, PA
Pfft. This is easy. Simply inject sensors into each player's elbows, chest, and knees, adn corrsponding receptors in teh plate.

Strike zone defined by MLB rules. :twisted:

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits