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 Post subject: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Since the other threads seems to be dying, thought we could have another intelligent and objective discussion.

Why would Opie trade a 22 year old starting pitching prospect for a 30 year old soon to be realeased crappy reliever?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Alex P. Keaton wrote:
Since the other threads seems to be dying, thought we could have another intelligent and objective discussion.

Why would Opie trade a 22 year old starting pitching prospect for a 30 year old soon to be realeased crappy reliever?


It was a mistake and I said so when it happened and everyone was nasty to me about it and this is bringing back some painful memories.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
Alex P. Keaton wrote:
Since the other threads seems to be dying, thought we could have another intelligent and objective discussion.

Why would Opie trade a 22 year old starting pitching prospect for a 30 year old soon to be realeased crappy reliever?


It was a mistake and I said so when it happened and everyone was nasty to me about it and this is bringing back some painful memories.

Well, not the response I was hoping for but..........wanna hug it out?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
Alex P. Keaton wrote:
Since the other threads seems to be dying, thought we could have another intelligent and objective discussion.

Why would Opie trade a 22 year old starting pitching prospect for a 30 year old soon to be realeased crappy reliever?


It was a mistake and I said so when it happened and everyone was nasty to me about it and this is bringing back some painful memories.


I think I am starting to like Kingston, quite a bit actually. No homo.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Tyler Yates throws hard, yep, throws hard. Like Tyler Yates.

Five minutes to Judge Wapner...


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Last edited by ZelieMike on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Punter wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Alex P. Keaton wrote:
Since the other threads seems to be dying, thought we could have another intelligent and objective discussion.

Why would Opie trade a 22 year old starting pitching prospect for a 30 year old soon to be realeased crappy reliever?


It was a mistake and I said so when it happened and everyone was nasty to me about it and this is bringing back some painful memories.


I think I am starting to like Kingston, quite a bit actually. No homo.


No??? Damn!!! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:29 pm 
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I like Tyler Yates.He has had alot of injuries and he just started to really get back to full strength in 2006.He had a good year with Atlanta in 2007 and just because Todd Redmond was young doesn't mean he will ever be anything.Yates had a hell of a good year on a bad team last year and i exspect him to have another good one this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Nobody here thought much of the trade at the time. We got a middle relief MLB ready pitcher with control problems for a potential soon to be MLB middle reliever who can barely touch 90 mph with his fastball. Braves couldn't keep him, NH took him off of their hands for a pitance. At the time it was considered a win for both sides. Personally, I think it was much ado about nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:31 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I like Tyler Yates.He has had alot of injuries and he just started to really get back to full strength in 2006.He had a good year with Atlanta in 2007 and just because Todd Redmond was young doesn't mean he will ever be anything.Yates had a hell of a good year on a bad team last year and i exspect him to have another good one this year.

Since when did a 1.54 WHIP and 5 walks for every 9 innings pitched equate to a hell of a good year?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Tyler Yates throws hard,

Three minutes to Judge Wapner...


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I like Tyler Yates.He has had alot of injuries and he just started to really get back to full strength in 2006.He had a good year with Atlanta in 2007 and just because Todd Redmond was young doesn't mean he will ever be anything.Yates had a hell of a good year on a bad team last year and i exspect him to have another good one this year.


I'm not sure I'd consider a "good year" an ERA of 5.18 and a WHIP of 1.44 in 2007, or an ERA of 4.66 and a WHIP of 1.54 in 2008. A hard throwing reliever who only has a career K/9 ratio of 8.1, but a BB/9 of 4.9 and a WHIP of 1.56 just isn't very effective and is certainly not worth acquiring for a young starting pitching prospect, in an organization that doesn't have very many of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Punter wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
I like Tyler Yates.He has had alot of injuries and he just started to really get back to full strength in 2006.He had a good year with Atlanta in 2007 and just because Todd Redmond was young doesn't mean he will ever be anything.Yates had a hell of a good year on a bad team last year and i exspect him to have another good one this year.


I'm not sure I'd consider a "good year" an ERA of 5.18 and a WHIP of 1.44 in 2007, or an ERA of 4.66 and a WHIP of 1.54 in 2008. A hard throwing reliever who only has a career K/9 ratio of 8.1, but a BB/9 of 4.9 and a WHIP of 1.56 just isn't very effective and is certainly not worth acquiring for a young starting pitching prospect, in an organization that doesn't have very many of them.

Not to mention, last time I checked Todd Redmond has a minor league career very similar to Daniel McCutchen.

How would people feel if Daniel McCutchen had been traded for a 30 year old crappy reliever who was about to be released?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Todd Redmond is a 90 mph sinker/slider guy.

"The Braves got 22-year-old right-hander Todd Redmond in exchange for Yates. Redmond (yes, the name will make Braves fans cringe) was rated the No. 27 prospect in the Pirates organization, no great shakes but a potential back-end rotation member in a few years."

"But anyway, the scouting report on this kid they got from the Pirates is that he has a very good curveball, good changeup and sinker, and excellent command. Tops out at about 90 mph with his fastball, which is just OK by big league standards."

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared ... index.html

So, he is a potential number 5 starter, a back-end rotation guy, a Josh Fogg-type pitcher. His AA stats are remarkably similar to Fogg's, as is his pitching repertoire.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... Fogg.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... mond.shtml

This gnashing of teeth over Redmond is strange. I was more concerned over the loss of Lillibridge, a guy who showed power potential at SS, but as is true with a majority of guys who produce at high-A or AA, they just do not pan out long-term.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:43 pm 
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The same Todd Redmond that was named the Southern League's Most Outstanding Pitcher for 2008? He seems to be able to get people out, which is more than Tyler Yates has ever accomplished in either his minor or major league career.

http://www.mlntherawfeed.com/minor-leag ... -most.html


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Todd Redmond is a 90 mph sinker/slider guy.

"The Braves got 22-year-old right-hander Todd Redmond in exchange for Yates. Redmond (yes, the name will make Braves fans cringe) was rated the No. 27 prospect in the Pirates organization, no great shakes but a potential back-end rotation member in a few years."

"But anyway, the scouting report on this kid they got from the Pirates is that he has a very good curveball, good changeup and sinker, and excellent command. Tops out at about 90 mph with his fastball, which is just OK by big league standards."

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared ... index.html

So, he is a potential number 5 starter, a back-end rotation guy, a Josh Fogg-type pitcher. His AA stats are remarkably similar to Fogg's, as is his pitching repertoire.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... Fogg.shtml

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... mond.shtml

This gnashing of teeth over Redmond is strange. I was more concerned over the loss of Lillibridge, a guy who showed power potential at SS, but as is true with a majority of guys who produce at high-A or AA, they just do not pan out long-term.


I agree about Lillibridge despite his recent struggles. He never should have been included in that deal.

And as I'm not stating Redmond will ever be a solid front end of the rotation guy, he does have some potential. And because of that potential, the Pirates truly were not in a position to simply throw away players from easily their weakest position just to acquire 30 year old crappy relievers who are about to be released.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA
2004 26 NYM NL 2 4 21 7 2 46.7 61 36 33 6 25 35 6.36
2006 28 ATL NL 2 5 56 11 1 50.0 42 23 22 6 31 46 3.96
2007 29 ATL NL 2 3 75 14 2 66.0 64 44 38 6 31 69 5.18
2008 30 PIT NL 6 3 72 16 1 73.3 72 39 38 6 41 63 4.66


Those are Yates numbers.He missed a good bit of the 2004 season in these stats, he missed all of the 2005 season, and he missed the start of the 2006 season.Since coming back to full health in about June of 2006 he has been a solid pitcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Redmond's stats before the trade werent that impressive to be called a prospect...

The Pirates have had their share of middle to back end of the rotation prospects...

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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:47 pm 
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I'm not sure how you can ignore his exceedingly high BB and WHIP totals - his propensity to allow baserunners is the death knell for any reliever.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Yeah, just ask Mike Williams...

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 Post subject: Re: Tyler Yates
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:52 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
Since coming back to full health in about June of 2006 he has been a solid pitcher.


Again, his 2007 and 2008 season completely disagree. Relievers who walk 5 for every 9 innings pitched and regularly post WHIP's around 1.50 aren't solid.

But more importantly, pitchers like Yates can easily be had. Just ask the Blue Jays who just picked up T.J. Beam off waivers.


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