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 Post subject: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:02 pm 
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...when a batter (in this case every Pirate :roll: ) stands there, with TWO strikes, and decides to take a pitch way TOO CLOSE to the strike zone. Instead of fouling off the pitch, or putting the ball in play, the Pirate will stand there with TWO STRIKES and take a pitch way TOO CLOSE.

The Pirate will leave his fate in the hands of the HP UMP. With the strike zone being all over the place and bad call after bad call on balls and strikes by HP Umpires, you would think the Pirates would learn NOT to take a pitch WITH TWO STRIKES...but no...it happens over and over again.

I would fine and or bench the next batter and any batter moving forward who stands there and doesn't protect the plate with two strikes.

Worst case scenarios:

1.) swing and a miss for strike three
2.) put the ball in play for a probable out (but who knows because anything can happen when the ball is put into play)
3.) foul off the pitch which is way too close to live and have another swing...staying alive at the plate!

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:16 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
...when a batter (in this case every Pirate :roll: ) stands there, with TWO strikes, and decides to take a pitch way TOO CLOSE to the strike zone. Instead of fouling off the pitch, or putting the ball in play, the Pirate will stand there with TWO STRIKES and take a pitch way TOO CLOSE.

The Pirate will leave his fate in the hands of the HP UMP. With the strike zone being all over the place and bad call after bad call on balls and strikes by HP Umpires, you would think the Pirates would learn NOT to take a pitch WITH TWO STRIKES...but no...it happens over and over again.

I would fine and or bench the next batter and any batter moving forward who stands there and doesn't protect the plate with two strikes.

Worst case scenarios:

1.) swing and a miss for strike three
2.) put the ball in play for a probable out (but who knows because anything can happen when the ball is put into play)
3.) foul off the pitch which is way too close to live and have another swing...staying alive at the plate!


I'm betting when a hitter takes a close 2 strike pitch, gets a favorable call, then rips the next pitch you'll never post about that. There are times when extending the zone with two strikes is imperative. Other times you are better off having faith that your eye and the ump's eye see it the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:19 pm 
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1) Actual worst case scenario - swing at ball 3 and/or weekly ground out on ball 3

2) No free agent would ever sign with you

3) Maybe it's not that easy to have perfect plate discipline and I think I've seen decent hitters take strike 3

4) Perhaps all hitters should be instructed to never strike out


Is baseball actually easier than I think it is? Because I see a lot of posts on this board that are like "hey, just hit the ball!" and stuff like that.

http://m.mlb.com/video/v25462635/ws2012 ... series-win

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:32 pm 
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From experience, don't look for a certain pitch, shorten the swing.

I was gifted enough to play up through legion ball but now I'm regulated to company softball as i've gotten older. Now all I do is work on serious lag of the bat generating power through the lower body to lead the hands holding that lag. Cranking it baby. Holding nothing back. No such thing as a two strike count.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Standing there WITH TWO strikes and TAKING A PITCH WAY TOO CLOSE TO THE STRIKE ZONE for a called strike three is the WORST thing a baseball player can do in my opinion.

Fouling off pitches (protecting the plate), putting the ball in play, or even swinging and missing for strike three is better than just standing there and taking strike three...IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:26 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Standing there WITH TWO strikes and TAKING A PITCH WAY TOO CLOSE TO THE STRIKE ZONE for a called strike three is the WORST thing a baseball player can do in my opinion.

You mean like Starling Marte, who swings at sliders that bounce a foot in front of home plate?

Yep, he does not take strike 3. Is he the hitter Andrew McCutchen and Pedro Alvarez should emulate? Meaning a 4% walk rate and 28% K rate? Is that what we're going for?


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Perhaps we should all remember that baseball is hard. Like, really hard.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:36 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Perhaps we should all remember that baseball is hard. Like, really hard.



"Hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in all of sport"

"ALL THAT GUY HAD TO DO WAS THE HARDEST THING TO DO IN ALL OF SPORT!!!!"

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:15 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Perhaps we should all remember that baseball is hard. Like, really hard.


Bingo. Impossibly hard for all but like .1% of the population. Getting rung up is going to happen to the best. Sometimes you just guess wrong, and you just freeze. I agree, you shouldn't be guessing too much with two strikes, but sometimes hitters have to cheat. Sometimes the pitch just moves more than you think it will, and it ends up catching a corner.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Get the fucking front foot down. Go from there. Don't open up. Shorten the swing.

ESPN broadcasters were hammering Pedro because he was willing to cheat, guessing what was coming. I want this guy to succeed but I guess the broadcasters don't watch many of his at bats. Of course they're right, he has great power to all fields but he's unwilling to use it.

This team has to be willing to shorten up and stay up the middle. Hit the cage.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Hitters shouldn't be guessing especially when they have two strikes...they should be anticipating.

And, other than maybe Walker and to some degree Cutch, I don't see many Pirates fouling off pitches WITH TWO STRIKES and trying to PROTECT THE PLATE.

AND finally, AGAIN, I'm talking about STANDING THERE TAKING STRIKE THREE. Marte does it, Alvarez does it because I believe they ARE guessing. If the HP UMP rings them up because they stood there and took a pitch WITH TWO STRIKES (even though it might have really been a ball but it was still too close to the strike zone)...then they deserve to be rung up...IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:19 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Hitters shouldn't be guessing especially when they have two strikes...they should be anticipating.

And, other than maybe Walker and to some degree Cutch, I don't see many Pirates fouling off pitches WITH TWO STRIKES and trying to PROTECT THE PLATE.

AND finally, AGAIN, I'm talking about STANDING THERE TAKING STRIKE THREE. Marte does it, Alvarez does it because I believe they ARE guessing. If the HP UMP rings them up because they stood there and took a pitch WITH TWO STRIKES (even though it might have really been a ball but it was still too close to the strike zone)...then they deserve to be rung up...IMHO.

I got your original premise: taking a potential 3rd strike leaves the batter's fate in the hands of the ump and it is not particularly proactive.

I get it. But what the hell is the difference between guessing and anticipating? Really?

Secondly, what makes you think they are guessing when taking a 3rd strike? Maybe, just maybe, they thought the pitch was going to be a ball. Now, I agree that better hitters let fewer strikes by them, regardless of the count. Maybe the issue isn't taking a pitch, it's that they're not very good at recognizing what's coming at them. And they'll suck.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:23 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Perhaps we should all remember that baseball is hard. Like, really hard.



Thank you. I was thinking the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:29 am 
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bassoondirector wrote:
AND finally, AGAIN, I'm talking about STANDING THERE TAKING STRIKE THREE. Marte does it, Alvarez does it because I believe they ARE guessing. If the HP UMP rings them up because they stood there and took a pitch WITH TWO STRIKES (even though it might have really been a ball but it was still too close to the strike zone)...then they deserve to be rung up...IMHO.

What if the ball is 4" outside? Too close to take?

How about 5" outside?

6" outside?

What is the cut-off point?

And if you say swing at 4" outside, but lay off 5" outside, are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that a batter should be able to differentiate a moving, darting, 93 mph pitch being 1 inch further outside?

Here is my suggestion: Swing at strikes, take balls. If the @#$*ing umpire rings you up on a ball - happens to Pedro a lot - then @#$* the umpire, not the batter.


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:47 am 
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I agree with what you're saying Bucfan...but at the same time...I've never seen a pitch 4" or 5" outside of the strike zone be called a strike (although some of these Umpires are probably capable of making such a call!)

If the pitch is too close to take WITH TWO STRIKES, swing at the damn ball. Don't just stand there and leave it up to the Umpires to decide your fate. Shorten up your swing and foul off the ball, or put the ball in play. Or if all else fails, swing and miss...don't just stand there!

That's all I'm saying Bucfan.

If you have TWO STRIKES...do your best to protect the plate...don't just stand there, not swing at all, and be called out by the HP Umpire who seems to take great pleasure ringing the batter up on a strike three call.

Strike zones vary way too much according to my eyeballs from Ump to Ump. There are way too many bad ball and strike calls by Umpires. If anything should change in MLB, it should how balls and strikes are called. I'm in favor of, have always been, and will always be, an electronic or digital strike zone.

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:08 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
I agree with what you're saying Bucfan...but at the same time...I've never seen a pitch 4" or 5" outside of the strike zone be called a strike (although some of these Umpires are probably capable of making such a call!

A company called Brooks uses computer graphics to chart every pitch, in every game. Here is what the strike zone looks like for left-handed batters (note the "mystery rectangle" way the @#$* off the outside corner), where the view is from behind home plate:

Image

That particular grid is Joe West, but Brooks' data shows that the "expanded" strike zone for left-handed batters on the outside corner is true for every umpire.

Does that change your view somewhat?


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:
I agree with what you're saying Bucfan...but at the same time...I've never seen a pitch 4" or 5" outside of the strike zone be called a strike (although some of these Umpires are probably capable of making such a call!

A company called Brooks uses computer graphics to chart every pitch, in every game. Here is what the strike zone looks like for left-handed batters (note the "mystery rectangle" way the @#$* off the outside corner), where the view is from behind home plate:

Image

That particular grid is Joe West, but Brooks' data shows that the "expanded" strike zone for left-handed batters on the outside corner is true for every umpire.

Does that change your view somewhat?


Pedro gets hurt a lot because of the strike zone. It seems like a lot of the pitches he takes that should be balls are called strikes which makes sense looking at the graphic bucfan posted.
There needs to be a computerized strike zone.

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:03 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
There needs to be a computerized strike zone.


Than you dan. A strike should be a strike for everyone and a ball should be a ball for everyone...same grid...same strike zone. Like in tennis...if the ball is out it's out...if the ball is in it's in...if the ball hits the line it's in.

These grids you post Bucfan just solidifies my opinion of a computerized strike zone...but it also makes me want to say batters should also swing at close-to-strike pitches when they do have two strikes. I would not allow an Umpire to call me out on strike three just standing there. I'd rather swing and miss or swing with the possibility of fouling off the pitch or even putting the ball into play...and again I'm talking about when a hitter has two strikes...

I'll go down swinging before an Umpire rings me up just standing there watching.

Time for a computerized strike zone.

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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:06 pm 
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What happens when the computer system takes a dump in the middle of the game. Maybe the catcher can call them…..technology will break….count on it... 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: You deserve to be rung up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:14 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
These grids you post Bucfan just solidifies my opinion of a computerized strike zone...but it also makes me want to say batters should also swing at close-to-strike pitches when they do have two strikes. I would not allow an Umpire to call me out on strike three just standing there.

Here is the problem with that approach, BD: An actual strike per the strike zone is a strike because experience shows it can be hit with reasonable authority, if the batter uses the proper approach (balls outside corner, wait on pitch, drive other way, etc.).

Balls that are NOT supposed to be called strikes are balls because they CANNOT be hit with authority, except in rare instances.

So you are forcing batters to swing at pitches that are NOT going to be hit hard, and are well out of the strike zone. The consequence of that is a scouting report, where the pitchers will work that pitch just tick more off the plate ... and then just a little more. Eventually, the hitter is going to be swinging at pitches that cannot, under any circumstance, be hit hard and will swing-and-miss a @#$*load of the time.

Further, the actual time a batter has to process the information and make a decision is miniscule. Even umpires can lock up on a pitch, and they don't have to hit the damn thing. Taking close pitches that are in fact BALLS and expecting the umpire to do his job is reasonable.


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