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 Post subject: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:58 pm 
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OPS for June:

Josh Harrison: .823

Pedro Alvarez: .879

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:02 am 
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stOPS the presses!

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:06 am 
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You didn't get the memo. Contributions are meaningless unless they come in the form of the ball going over the fence.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:55 am 
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I would rather see Harrison come up in the bottom of the ninth, with runners on base.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:14 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
OPS for June:

Josh Harrison: .823

Pedro Alvarez: .879


Yeah but Harrison put up a 148 ScRaPY rating while Pedro only managed a paltry 84.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:01 pm 
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How about RBI in June? Pedro, THREE, if I heard correctly on last night's broadcast.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
How about RBI in June? Pedro, THREE, if I heard correctly on last night's broadcast.


Yeah but it's not like he's had Andrew McCutchen hitting ahead of him. Oh, wait...

There's a reason why Jordy Mercer pinch hit for him in a clutch, 8th inning situation two weeks ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:41 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
There's a reason why Jordy Mercer pinch hit for him in a clutch, 8th inning situation two weeks ago.


Are you sure you know the reason, yourself?

It was because the Reds brought in a LOOGY (Manny Parra) to face Alvarez. Alvarez can't hit lefities at all, meanwhile Mercer destroyed LHP last year (1.152 OPS against them). That is simply smart platoon managing. Walker can't hit lefties, either, and could have also been PH for in that situation.

There's also the fact that Jordy Mercer is simply not a terrible hitter like people make him out to be when they use this example to harp on Alvarez. Despite a slow start this year, he heated up in June, was one of the best offensive shortshops in the league last year, hit well in the high minors, and if you care about what Clint Hurdle says to the media, he recently said they might envision him as a 2-hole hitter in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:22 pm 
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Corsair wrote:
How about RBI in June? Pedro, THREE, if I heard correctly on last night's broadcast.


June RBI

Harrison - 14
Alvarez - 14


Other June numbers:

Harrison - .317/.358/.465/.823 (14 RBI, 13 R, 2 HR, 101 AB, 32 H, 7 2B, 1 3B, 6 BB, 16 K)
Alvarez - 299/.396/.483/.879 (14 RBI, 14 R, 3 HR, 87 AB, 26H, 5 2B, 1 3B, 13 BB, 28 K)


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:47 pm 
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We're comparing numbers between a utility player who's having a career year to a player who has a higher ceiling and has a slugger under his belt already.

I'm still arguing Pedro can't sit back and hit offspeed and I have no idea why the rest of the league hasn't figured this out on a consistent basis. Last night Pedro rips a cuter from wainwright to left center in his first at bat. After that, offspeed after offspeed pitch and he looked stupid. Really fucking stupid. Its not just last night and its not just one type of offspeed pitch. Dude can't wait. Don't need a fastball to keep him honest. Don't know why he ever sees something he can time.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:47 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
There's a reason why Jordy Mercer pinch hit for him in a clutch, 8th inning situation two weeks ago.


Are you sure you know the reason, yourself?

It was because the Reds brought in a LOOGY (Manny Parra) to face Alvarez. Alvarez can't hit lefities at all, meanwhile Mercer destroyed LHP last year (1.152 OPS against them). That is simply smart platoon managing. Walker can't hit lefties, either, and could have also been PH for in that situation.

There's also the fact that Jordy Mercer is simply not a terrible hitter like people make him out to be when they use this example to harp on Alvarez. Despite a slow start this year, he heated up in June, was one of the best offensive shortshops in the league last year, hit well in the high minors, and if you care about what Clint Hurdle says to the media, he recently said they might envision him as a 2-hole hitter in the future.


Walker 2014
vs LHP (52 AB) .288/.362/.365/.727
vs RHP (230 AB) .274/.342/.443/.785

Walker has been hitting L and R pitchers pretty consistently this year.

Mercer 2014
vs LHP (48 AB) .313/.333/.500/.833
vs RHP (220 AB) .236/.280/.341/.621

Mercer 2013
vs LHP (78 AB) .410/.460/.692/1.152
vs RHP (255 AB) .247/.297/.357/.654

Mercer is pretty pathetic against RHP which is the majority of the time. His June numbers as a whole okay but I wouldn't say he has been hot.

.267/.299 /.436/.735


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:49 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
We're comparing numbers between a utility player who's having a career year to a player who has a higher ceiling and has a slugger under his belt already.

I'm still arguing Pedro can't sit back and hit offspeed and I have no idea why the rest of the league hasn't figured this out on a consistent basis. Last night Pedro rips a cuter from wainwright to left center in his first at bat. After that, offspeed after offspeed pitch and he looked stupid. Really fucking stupid. Its not just last night and its not just one type of offspeed pitch. Dude can't wait. Don't need a fastball to keep him honest. Don't know why he ever sees something he can time.


He has always been that way though. People have to come to terms with the fact that this may be his ceiling and it's still okay because he will get his home runs and he will knock in runs. Most players NEVER reach what they are projected to do coming out of the draft. Sometimes I think that people still look at the 2008 scouting report and think that if he doesn't do that he sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:00 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Walker has been hitting L and R pitchers pretty consistently this year.


This year, yes, for his career (large sample size) he has a .662 OPS against LHP. Not nearly as hopeless as Alvarez, but very poor.

As far as Mercer heating up, he was excellent for most of June before cooling off the last few weeks (still finished with a very good 104 wRC+ for the month). And he's getting on base at a .577 clip so far in July.

The point is that Mercer PH for Alvarez because he can hit lefties and Alvarez (and a lot of other players) can't. I just used the Walker example because there are a lot of hitters who struggle against lefties and it is sometimes smart to PH for them. It's why Gaby Sanchez is so effective as a PH.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:54 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
We're comparing numbers between a utility player who's having a career year to a player who has a higher ceiling and has a slugger under his belt already.

I'm still arguing Pedro can't sit back and hit offspeed and I have no idea why the rest of the league hasn't figured this out on a consistent basis. Last night Pedro rips a cuter from wainwright to left center in his first at bat. After that, offspeed after offspeed pitch and he looked stupid. Really fucking stupid. Its not just last night and its not just one type of offspeed pitch. Dude can't wait. Don't need a fastball to keep him honest. Don't know why he ever sees something he can time.


He has always been that way though. People have to come to terms with the fact that this may be his ceiling and it's still okay because he will get his home runs and he will knock in runs. Most players NEVER reach what they are projected to do coming out of the draft. Sometimes I think that people still look at the 2008 scouting report and think that if he doesn't do that he sucks.



Pretty much. You don't get extra-credit runs for Harrison because he was drafted so late.

Cutch was not drafted to be arguably the best player in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:16 am 
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Corsair wrote:
How about RBI in June? Pedro, THREE, if I heard correctly on last night's broadcast.

Please don't make me explain yet again how asinine it is to rank hitters by RBI totals.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:21 am 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
We're comparing numbers between a utility player who's having a career year to a player who has a higher ceiling and has a slugger under his belt already.

I'm still arguing Pedro can't sit back and hit offspeed and I have no idea why the rest of the league hasn't figured this out on a consistent basis. Last night Pedro rips a cuter from wainwright to left center in his first at bat. After that, offspeed after offspeed pitch and he looked stupid. Really fucking stupid. Its not just last night and its not just one type of offspeed pitch. Dude can't wait. Don't need a fastball to keep him honest. Don't know why he ever sees something he can time.

The rest of the league HAS figured that out. The problem is that there aren't many pitchers who can consistently throw a decent breaking ball for strikes, and if you get one up, Pedro will destroy it. Pedro pretty much destroys everything that's high in the strike zone. I'm pretty sure that he sees less fastballs than any hitter in the NL, if I remember the article that I read about it correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:43 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
We're comparing numbers between a utility player who's having a career year to a player who has a higher ceiling and has a slugger under his belt already.

I'm still arguing Pedro can't sit back and hit offspeed and I have no idea why the rest of the league hasn't figured this out on a consistent basis. Last night Pedro rips a cuter from wainwright to left center in his first at bat. After that, offspeed after offspeed pitch and he looked stupid. Really fucking stupid. Its not just last night and its not just one type of offspeed pitch. Dude can't wait. Don't need a fastball to keep him honest. Don't know why he ever sees something he can time.

The rest of the league HAS figured that out. The problem is that there aren't many pitchers who can consistently throw a decent breaking ball for strikes, and if you get one up, Pedro will destroy it. Pedro pretty much destroys everything that's high in the strike zone. I'm pretty sure that he sees less fastballs than any hitter in the NL, if I remember the article that I read about it correctly.


If we read the same article I believe he sees the 2nd fewest fastballs in the strike zone of any hitter in the NL. Not sure about total fastballs, I can't recall anything there. Still, he's definitely being pitched differently this year and the numbers are encouraging in terms of him adjusting to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:32 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
We're comparing numbers between a utility player who's having a career year to a player who has a higher ceiling and has a slugger under his belt already.

I'm still arguing Pedro can't sit back and hit offspeed and I have no idea why the rest of the league hasn't figured this out on a consistent basis. Last night Pedro rips a cuter from wainwright to left center in his first at bat. After that, offspeed after offspeed pitch and he looked stupid. Really fucking stupid. Its not just last night and its not just one type of offspeed pitch. Dude can't wait. Don't need a fastball to keep him honest. Don't know why he ever sees something he can time.

The rest of the league HAS figured that out. The problem is that there aren't many pitchers who can consistently throw a decent breaking ball for strikes, and if you get one up, Pedro will destroy it. Pedro pretty much destroys everything that's high in the strike zone. I'm pretty sure that he sees less fastballs than any hitter in the NL, if I remember the article that I read about it correctly.


If we read the same article I believe he sees the 2nd fewest fastballs in the strike zone of any hitter in the NL. Not sure about total fastballs, I can't recall anything there. Still, he's definitely being pitched differently this year and the numbers are encouraging in terms of him adjusting to it.


This.

They guy isn't a freak. He can't just hit anything over the fence.


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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:00 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
You didn't get the memo. Contributions are meaningless unless they come in the form of the ball going over the fence.


I'm not sure I received that memo either.

In going through the memos that I've received which appear to be designed to educate those of us who aren't as enlightened or possess less intelligence about the game, I came across two of interest.

The first was the WAR memo which touts a statistic that is supposedly designed to give a full picture of a player's contributions. So . . . In light of that memo, I checked FanGraphs (because that appears to be THE Holy Grail of real baseball evaluations) and see that Harrison put up a higher WAR than Alvarez in June.

The second memo that I found was the "small sample size" memo which openly mocked those for using small sample sizes to reach conclusions. So ... In light of that memo, I looked at WAR for the year, wRC+ for the year - because, you know, I'm told that those are the stats that really matter - and see that Harrison has outperformed Alvarez over the nearly 100 games played.

Thus, I'm confused. If Harrison has outperformed Alvarez in a large sample size by the eye test, the gut feeling test and by WAR and wRC+, then why exactly are the commoners being mocked by references to some fictitious SCRAP factor or wanting the Pirates' slugging third baseman to hit more homers and drive in more runs?

My inferior mind can't seem to grasp these issues. I'm left to conclude that there is some selective use of stats to remind us of our inferior ability to understand what is really and truly important. Maybe I need another memo ....... If thoise in the know can save "players and managers" from their inferior abilities, surely we can be saved as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Some June Numbers
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:10 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
TheShark wrote:
You didn't get the memo. Contributions are meaningless unless they come in the form of the ball going over the fence.


I'm not sure I received that memo either.


Dang it!

Do you realize what this means?

Someone forgot to put the coversheet on the TPS report again.

*sigh*

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