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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:57 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
So, apparently J_C has grabbed radio interest as David Todd's show is running the "Who says no?" meme. You should have copyrighted the topic J_C.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:18 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
They would probably be disappointed if Gallo turns into Pedro Alvarez. To me, it makes zero sense then to trade Gallo (along with Beltre) for Alvarez.

Gallo is well above Ramirez and Sampson as a prospect. I think the Rangers decline this trade in a few seconds.


You're probably right. Instead of Gallo, the Pirates may have to settle for Ramirez in the trade. And I'd still do it.


Alvarez, Ramirez, and Sampson wouldn't even net Beltre let alone Beltre and a prospect. I'd do it too but I would guess the Rangers still would have zero interest in it.

This is assuming a conservative 5.0 WAR in 2015 and 2016 for Beltre and a conservative 2.0 WAR for Alvarez in those years. Also the assumption that Pedro gets bumped to around 6MM in arbitration next year and to 7.5MM the year after.

You'd probably be looking at Alvarez, Ramirez, and a pitcher ranked in the Top 75-100 range or Alvarez and a guy like Mel Rojas Jr along with Reese McGuire or Alen Hanson (Top 75-100 guys who play premium positions and are young for their levels).

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Last edited by StarlingArcher on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:43 am 
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A.J. Pierzynski?


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Okay, what the hell. Troy Tulowitski for Glasnow, Sadler, Rojas, and Bell. Who says no?


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:27 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Okay, what the hell. Troy Tulowitski for Glasnow, Sadler, Rojas, and Bell. Who says no?


I'd have to think Colorado does. The Pirates would have to strongly consider that.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:37 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Okay, what the hell. Troy Tulowitski for Glasnow, Sadler, Rojas, and Bell. Who says no?

That is reasonably close - two top-50 prospects, including an elite power arm. Breaking ball pitchers fail in Colorado, and the Rockies have taken an interest in guys like Jon Gray, a huge right-hander with a plus-plus fastball. Sound familiar?

Bell might not be able to play OF in Colorado, and they have a glut of OF'ers (Cargo, Blackmon, Dickerson, Stubbs and eventually Cuddyer). How much longer is Morneau a Rockie? If the Rockies need to replace him, then adding an elite power arm and their new 1st baseman, along with some other value, might do it.

Close ... close. His salary is clearly an issue, however. $20 million per year is a buttload of money for one guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Oops- stupid me. They'll need a shortstop. Replace Rojas with Mercer. Now they'll do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:54 pm 
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All depends on what you project for him going forward. If he's a 5 WAR guy every year the Pirates would have to cough up significantly more than that for him. You're talking Glasnow, Bell, Kingham to make up the $46MM in surplus value (this is assuming he's a 5.0 WAR player in his 30's).

If you think he'll decline even by just .5 WAR every 2 years (he'll be 30 next year so it's likely) then you could get him for Bell and Harold Ramirez. But then, is he really worth his salary?

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:16 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
The rumor is Troy Tulowitzki has told the Rockies he wants dealt.

What would it take for the Rockies to say yes?

An awful lot, and unless he gets to bring Coors Field with him, it's going to be way too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:25 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
They would probably be disappointed if Gallo turns into Pedro Alvarez. To me, it makes zero sense then to trade Gallo (along with Beltre) for Alvarez.

Gallo is well above Ramirez and Sampson as a prospect. I think the Rangers decline this trade in a few seconds.


You're probably right. Instead of Gallo, the Pirates may have to settle for Ramirez in the trade. And I'd still do it.


Alvarez, Ramirez, and Sampson wouldn't even net Beltre let alone Beltre and a prospect. I'd do it too but I would guess the Rangers still would have zero interest in it.

This is assuming a conservative 5.0 WAR in 2015 and 2016 for Beltre and a conservative 2.0 WAR for Alvarez in those years. Also the assumption that Pedro gets bumped to around 6MM in arbitration next year and to 7.5MM the year after.

You'd probably be looking at Alvarez, Ramirez, and a pitcher ranked in the Top 75-100 range or Alvarez and a guy like Mel Rojas Jr along with Reese McGuire or Alen Hanson (Top 75-100 guys who play premium positions and are young for their levels).


Given Adrian Beltre's age, I don't think it would take that ridiculous of a package to grab him. I'd say Alvarez, Ramirez, and either one of Glasnow/Kingham or a couple of slightly lower-ranked pitching prospects, would do it or get close.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:37 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Given Adrian Beltre's age, I don't think it would take that ridiculous of a package to grab him. I'd say Alvarez, Ramirez, and either one of Glasnow/Kingham or a couple of slightly lower-ranked pitching prospects, would do it or get close.



He might be old but he's still awesome. But for just him and no Gallo, Alvarez + Glasnow should absolutely do it. The Bucs would say no to that one in a second. It's Gallo that tips the scales considerably.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:55 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
He might be old but he's still awesome. But for just him and no Gallo, Alvarez + Glasnow should absolutely do it. The Bucs would say no to that one in a second. It's Gallo that tips the scales considerably.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:00 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Given Adrian Beltre's age, I don't think it would take that ridiculous of a package to grab him. I'd say Alvarez, Ramirez, and either one of Glasnow/Kingham or a couple of slightly lower-ranked pitching prospects, would do it or get close.



He might be old but he's still awesome. But for just him and no Gallo, Alvarez + Glasnow should absolutely do it. The Bucs would say no to that one in a second. It's Gallo that tips the scales considerably.

I don't think that Glasnow is going anywhere, no matter what the return.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:37 am 
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I like this thread. I think we need to keep it going. How about this?

Pedro Alvarez for Lonnie Chisenhall. Who says no? Bucs or Tribe?


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:41 am 
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Indians, unless they think it would work as an extreme case of sell-high buy-low. Chisenhall is raking and has one more year of control.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:47 am 
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Okay- what if the deal was sweetened with one pitcher from the following list:

Justin Wilson
Vance Worley
Brandon Cumpton
Stolmy Pimentel
Casey Sadler
Adrian Sampson

I notice on their depth chart that they only have 3 starters currently.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:48 am 
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doug frobel wrote:
Okay- what if the deal was sweetened with one pitcher from the following list:

Justin Wilson
Vance Worley
Brandon Cumpton
Stolmy Pimentel
Casey Sadler
Adrian Sampson

I notice on their depth chart that they only have 3 starters currently.



Maybe if you add Locke instead of one of those guys but even then I doubt it. They can see that those pitchers are nothing special.

Pedro looks to have plateaued, and Chisenhall may be an emerging star.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:51 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
Okay- what if the deal was sweetened with one pitcher from the following list:

Justin Wilson
Vance Worley
Brandon Cumpton
Stolmy Pimentel
Casey Sadler
Adrian Sampson

I notice on their depth chart that they only have 3 starters currently.



Maybe if you add Locke instead of one of those guys but even then I doubt it. They can see that those pitchers are nothing special.

Pedro looks to have plateaued, and Chisenhall may be an emerging star.


He may be an emerging star (a late bloomer), but he may also be a flash-in-the-pan.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:13 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
Okay- what if the deal was sweetened with one pitcher from the following list:

Justin Wilson
Vance Worley
Brandon Cumpton
Stolmy Pimentel
Casey Sadler
Adrian Sampson

I notice on their depth chart that they only have 3 starters currently.



Maybe if you add Locke instead of one of those guys but even then I doubt it. They can see that those pitchers are nothing special.

Pedro looks to have plateaued, and Chisenhall may be an emerging star.


He may be an emerging star (a late bloomer), but he may also be a flash-in-the-pan.



He's 25, had a rough 24 year old season and hit well in limited time at 23 in his 2nd season. Hit pretty well for a rookie as well. Could be a flash, sure, but I'd bet that he's a regular bloomer.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Says No?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:48 pm 
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I stole this one from SB Nation:

Jon Lester to the Pirates for Jameson Taillon, Stolmy Pimentel

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