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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:27 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
. The A's are far and away the best team in the league...



This... meh, maybe. Best team or team playing the best? The latter I say. There are teams in the AL equal to, or better in talent, if not record or run differential. I think Beane realizes this and is trying to solidify his playoff run by adding more talent, thereby bringing him closer to being the best team, and to minimize those pesky "random" playoff rejections that have for so long been Beane's bane.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:40 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
urbman21 wrote:
And I will still defend my stance that prospects are worthless and are a 100% gamble until they prove themselves in the big leagues.


And you will still be told that you are 100%, unequivocally incorrect.

Yeah, let's go with the strategy that it's smart to hold out for major league ready prospects in AAA, not guys who are 1-2 levels lower but much more highly regarded. The Dave Littlefield strategy reincarnated.


Like Jon Singleton and Oscar Taveras I guess you referring to. LOL


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Yes, those guys are doomed to mediocrity after 150 plate appearances and teams like the Rangers are in a wonderful spot after repeatedly gutting their system for major league ready players.

Think they're happy that they traded Chris Davis for Koji Uehara?

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:44 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Think they're happy that they traded Chris Davis for Koji Uehara?


this year... probably yes.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:50 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Think they're happy that they traded Chris Davis for Koji Uehara?


this year... probably yes.

ZM


Potentially. Although even in a down year (so far, he could turn it around as his LD% is at a career high and his BABIP is a career low....something has to give) he's still far outperforming what the Rangers are trotting out there at 1B every day. Fielder (and now Moreland) have both been atrocious.

And, regardless of the value of "going for it" (and there's some merit there...if and when the time is right), Chris Davis' 8.8 WAR over the 2 previous seasons far outpaces what they got for a brief stint from a middle reliever.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:58 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
I think NH is a great "rebuilding" GM but I don't think he is good at negotiating ML trades. Beane seems to do it every year and find replacements that are "throw aways" from other teams, and continues to win. NH is so scared to go for it when meanwhile our minor league system is beyond stacked - according to all the prospect evaluators on this site. We have tons of prospects to trade for a few good "fill in" pieces to go for it but NH continues to proceed with caution. IMO that's not going to win a WS. We might keep making the playoffs for years to come but if we want a legitimate shot at winning it all then we need to go "all in" at some point.


Do you look at the minor league stat sheets? There are not as many top prospects as you think. Maybe 2-3 at each level. The vast majority of the minor leaguers will never be more than AAAA type players.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:22 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
This... meh, maybe. Best team or team playing the best? The latter I say. There are teams in the AL equal to, or better in talent, if not record or run differential. I think Beane realizes this and is trying to solidify his playoff run by adding more talent, thereby bringing him closer to being the best team, and to minimize those pesky "random" playoff rejections that have for so long been Beane's bane.


When you have a run differential of +135 (for perspective, the second best team is +71) and Pythag of 58-30, it's no fluke.

I do agree though that the trade is as much reflective of knowing the current SPs are due for some natural regression in the second half (notably Chavez) as it just bolstering the current rotation.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:19 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
This... meh, maybe. Best team or team playing the best? The latter I say. There are teams in the AL equal to, or better in talent, if not record or run differential. I think Beane realizes this and is trying to solidify his playoff run by adding more talent, thereby bringing him closer to being the best team, and to minimize those pesky "random" playoff rejections that have for so long been Beane's bane.


When you have a run differential of +135 (for perspective, the second best team is +71) and Pythag of 58-30, it's no fluke.

I do agree though that the trade is as much reflective of knowing the current SPs are due for some natural regression in the second half (notably Chavez) as it just bolstering the current rotation.


Thank you Shark. A few of the guys on here think everything is a stat or a number. Yes, baseball is still played on the field.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:40 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
Yes, baseball is still played on the field.


But it's also not fantasy baseball where you can just redraft and restock every single year without missing a beat. There ARE long-term consequences, salaries DO matter, and years of control are worth a premium. It's why the Marte for Archer proposal you had in another thread isn't as cut and dry as "Marte has had more WAR in his career so the Rays would be dumb not to take him". By that logic, gaining control of A-Rod is the most valuable asset on the market.

Nobody is saying don't ever go for it, everybody is saying don't go for it when you're potentially looking at needing to fill 3 premium positions in the offseason and aren't a prohibitive favorite to win the World Series, let alone the pennant. That's where the Pirates are. Go for it when you're the A's, not clawing for a Wild Card.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:54 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
TheShark wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
This... meh, maybe. Best team or team playing the best? The latter I say. There are teams in the AL equal to, or better in talent, if not record or run differential. I think Beane realizes this and is trying to solidify his playoff run by adding more talent, thereby bringing him closer to being the best team, and to minimize those pesky "random" playoff rejections that have for so long been Beane's bane.


When you have a run differential of +135 (for perspective, the second best team is +71) and Pythag of 58-30, it's no fluke.

I do agree though that the trade is as much reflective of knowing the current SPs are due for some natural regression in the second half (notably Chavez) as it just bolstering the current rotation.


Thank you Shark. A few of the guys on here think everything is a stat or a number. Yes, baseball is still played on the field.

You do realize, of course, that the post that you write so approvingly of does nothing but cite advanced stats, right?

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:29 am 
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Advanced stats are created on the field, just like regular stats. Or something. Anyway, trade all of the Bucs' prospects for Gavin Floyd.

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