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 Post subject: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:56 pm 
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WOW. Give up Addison Russell (Top 5 prospect in baseball), Billy McKinney (1st rounder from last year), and Dan Straily.

Kind of surprised, if only because the Cubs are pretty stacked with IF bats. Maybe Starlin Castro becomes available for pitching prospects. Or maybe they try to move Addison Russell, Arismendy Alcantera, Kris Bryant, or Javier Baez for pitching prospects.

Edit: After the dust settles, no PTBNL as previously reported.

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Last edited by StarlingArcher on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:05 am 
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This is very interesting. Not like Billy Beane at all. We will see if it works out.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:12 am 
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I was extremely surprised but then you see that they're far and away the best team in baseball and have 2 teams in their division who are 2nd and 3rd in baseball in run differential and you can understand it. This is potentially "the year" for them. Not a ton of holes for them as they're currently constructed.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:40 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
This is potentially "the year" for them. Not a ton of holes for them as they're currently constructed.


I think it's a combination of this, and Beane recognizing that the only holes that will potentially develop in the second half would be in the rotation (Chavez regression, for example). Weird trade that I definitely never saw coming though. Honestly can't recall a trade where a team two best SPs are traded to the same team, at least in my memory. Not that I wouldn't have done it if I were Epstein, I would have in a heartbeat, but I agree that the lack of pitching depth is becoming more and more evident. I think a piece will definitely be flipped. Scary farm system regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:04 am 
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Of course the Cubs have to deal Hammel, who is probably my best SP'er in a NL-only league.

@#$% the Cubs.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:25 am 
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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:09 am 
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Credit Theo Epstein and Co. That's impressive return for two guys who are having career years. Their rotation resembles the 2010 Pirates' now but it's not like they were going anywhere this season anyway.

Is Russell better defensively than Castro? I'd imagine they're way past ready to dump Darwin Barney. Could one of the SS kick over to 2nd?


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:04 am 
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Wonder how many calls they've received already asking about Castro's availability? Take out 2013 and this kid is an all star and is only 24 years old. I assume the Cubs will move someone to second base, but they now have 3 high level SS's...one in the majors, one at AAA, and now one at AA. Within 2 years you have to think all 3 of them will be in the majors so Cubs will have to make position changes or a trade.

Just thinking out loud...but Castro sure would look nice in a Pirates uniform. Upgrade the shortstop position. Doesn't become a FA until 2020. Decent contract...Cubs are loaded with offensive prospects but could use pitching prospects...again, just thinking out loud...


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:15 am 
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I imagine the Pirates would have to give up a lot to make that happen. I'm not a fan of any deal that involves our best prospects.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:35 am 
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if Castro is traded it will be for pitching. The Cubs minor league system has a lot of bats and next to no pitchers 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:12 pm 
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I also don't see an inner-division trade happening w/ the Cubs on the upswing and someone like Epstein probably thinking the Pirates are a perennial contender the next few years based on the strength of their farm system to accompany the core.

Alas, what a difference a year makes when it comes to SS depth in the system. Hanson has progressed pretty smoothly in AA (many scouts now actually like his chances to stick at short, which was previously a huge question mark), JaCoby Jones is having a breakout year in WV and showing impressive power, and obviously drafting Tucker. Pretty positive developments considering d'Arnaud is no longer a prospect and there simply wasn't much there a year ago.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:14 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Is Russell better defensively than Castro? I'd imagine they're way past ready to dump Darwin Barney. Could one of the SS kick over to 2nd?


From everything I've read, yes re: Russell being better defensively than Castro.

It'll be interesting to see what they do, they have quite a logjam. Arismendy Alcantara is a 2B/SS in AAA who is killing the ball, and a Top 50 prospect.

I'm not sure if they'd be able to move any of their MIF guys (Castro, Russell, Baez, Alcantera) to the OF and as it is they're probably going to need to move Bryant to the OF and have Baez at 3B potentially.

It'll be interesting, that's a system without a lot of pitching and an overload of bats it appears. I thought for sure they'd be holding out for some serious arms in return.

FWIW, the consensus seems to be that Castro is likely to be moved sometime in 2015, Baez shifts to 3rd, Bryant goes to the OF and Addison Russell is their SS of the future.

Hate to say it, but the Cubs are looking like they'll be the Pirates' division rivals starting in about 2 years. They can buy pitching if need be.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Also, you have to imagine Andrew Friedman is doing cartwheels now, right? Absolutely massive return for 2 starters worse than Price and now everybody is going to be desperate to play catch-up as the best team in baseball (by far) just improved themselves significantly.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:36 pm 
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As a Cubs fan pointed out on MLB.com last night "And the Cubs 106 year rebuilding plan continues."


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Have to echo sentiments here.

Surprised A's pulled the trigger and this is a great deal for the Cubs.

Epstein knows what he's doing. Now the Cubs should be a near lock for a top-three pick and they can flip one of their IF pieces for arms.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:58 pm 
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A's are near the end of their current window (lots of contracts expire after next season) and are the current best team in baseball. Very few present holes, it was a good time to make a move. I was surprised at first too, then saw their payroll situation.

Trading Polanco, McGuire, and a guy like Cumpton or Sadler would've been dumb for the Pirates given where they are, but I think it makes sense for the A's at this point in time.

The Cards are in a very similar position, it would be nice to see them cough up Taveras for Price.

Timing is everything with trades and big contracts (don't want to blow your load too early in the contention window), and the Cubs just totally exploited that.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:31 pm 
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I think it was a win-win given where both teams are. A's just got a lot scarier. And I'm happy for Samardzija. But more happy that we don't have to face him anymore...


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Another brilliant move by Beane. You can give the WS rings to the A's now. Again, another reason why prospects are way overvalued. If you have a window to win it all, you go for it - plain and simple. Prospects are still "prospects" and that's all they all. Beane will find "throw away" players next year from other teams and still keep winning the way he does every year. This is my only issue with NH. I still think he overvalues his prospects and that has caused us to fall short a couple of years. But I still respect his style and think we will eventually win in "time". "Time" is the key word here.

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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:49 am 
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urbman21 wrote:
Prospects are still "prospects" and that's all they all.

They are more than that, urbman. They are future major league players, and if in the Pirates' system, they are the Pirates' best players in the near future.

Andrew McCutchen - prospect as of 2009. Would you trade him now?
Neil Walker - prospect as of 2009. Would you trade him now?
Starling Marte - prospect 2012.
Gregory Polanco - prospect 2014.
Pedro Alvarez, Jordy Mercer, Justin Wilson, Tony Watson, Gerrit Cole, Jeff Locke - all prospects at one point.

Arguably, the Pirates' six of seven best position players, their best SP'er, and 2 of their 3 best bullpen arms were nothing more than "prospects" just a few years ago. Huntington could have dealt all of them for temporary improvement in the form of marginally productive veteran players.

But he would have given up an MVP and multiple all-stars.

Further, years of control and cost are huge factors in favor of young players. Polanco and Marte combine for less expense than a guy like Byrd. The extra money means that the Pirates can get an Edison Volquez for $5 million.

Which has more value - Marlon Byrd for $8 million, or Marte, and Polanco, and Watson, and Volquez for $8 million?

urbman21 wrote:
This is my only issue with NH. I still think he overvalues his prospects and that has caused us to fall short a couple of years. But I still respect his style and think we will eventually win in "time."

See above. He knows that high-end prospects have incredible value - superb production at very reasonable cost.


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 Post subject: Re: A's trade for Samardzija and Hammel in blockbuster
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:03 am 
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Great post Bucfan. Was about to say, you can't have a window without prospects.

If the Pirates give up Polanco and 2 other legitimate pieces for 1.5 years of 2 pitchers then their entire outlook changes. Even last year when I was beating the "trade Polanco for Giancarlo Stanton" drum it was under the assumption that they could/would extend Stanton. You don't trade guys who will be legitimate pieces in your window for short-term guys.

The A's window is closing around the time that they lose control of Samardzija. So they probably set back their next "window of contention" with this trade but didn't do anything to shorten this one. That's the key. Don't shorten your 5 year window and diminish your core because you want to go balls out for 2 years.

It's exactly why people think the Cards will make a move. Their current window is closing, if they deal Taveras it just sets them back. It doesn't damage their core of Carpenter, Molina, Holliday, and the pitchers.

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