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 Post subject: Arod Tests Positive/Now Admits It
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:01 pm 
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In 2003, when he won the American League home run title and the AL Most Valuable Player award as a shortstop for the Texas Rangers, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for two anabolic steroids, four sources have independently told Sports Illustrated.

Rodriguez's name appears on a list of 104 players who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball's '03 survey testing, SI's sources say. As part of a joint agreement with the MLB Players Association, the testing was conducted to determine if it was necessary to impose mandatory random drug testing across the major leagues in 2004.

When approached by an SI reporter on Thursday at a gym in Miami, Rodriguez declined to discuss his 2003 test results. "You'll have to talk to the union," said Rodriguez, the Yankees' third baseman since his trade to New York in February 2004. When asked if there was an explanation for his positive test, he said, "I'm not saying anything."

Phone messages left by SI for players' union executive director Donald Fehr were not returned.

Though MLB's drug policy has expressly prohibited the use of steroids without a valid prescription since 1991, there were no penalties for a positive test in 2003.

Because more than 5% of big leaguers had tested positive in 2003, baseball instituted a mandatory random-testing program, with penalties, in '04. According to the 2007 Mitchell Report on steroid use in baseball, in September 2004, Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the players' union, violated an agreement with MLB by tipping off a player (not named in the report) about an upcoming, supposedly unannounced drug test. Three major league players who spoke to SI said that Rodriguez was also tipped by Orza in early September 2004 that he would be tested later that month. Rodriguez declined to respond on Thursday when asked about the warning Orza provided him.

When Orza was asked on Friday in the union's New York City office about the tipping allegations, he told a reporter, "I'm not interested in discussing this information with you."


...because stonewalling has worked out so well for others in the past.


Last edited by Kingston on Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Is anyone truly shocked by this?

Between this and Joe Torre's disclosures about the Yankees being an unpleasant organization to work for, I'm not sure which surprises me less.

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:23 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Is anyone truly shocked by this?


Shocked, I guess not. Surprised? I am, sort of. Maybe I just didnt want to believe it. And I wasnt alone. Alot of people were looking forward to Arod passing Bonds one day, restoring integrity to the record. So much for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:26 pm 
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I truly do not care anymore. Everybody was juicing. Does anybody still care?

Now I'm going to have to avoid watching ESPN for a while to spare myself all the sermons from these old purists.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
A lot of people were looking forward to Arod passing Bonds one day, restoring integrity to the record. So much for that.

Maybe I'd buy into that if you could tell me how many home runs Aaron hit without the aid of greenies. Or Ruth without a corked bat.

It may be the most hallowed record in the sport, but it's also the most tainted — and always has been.

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Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:58 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Kingston wrote:
A lot of people were looking forward to Arod passing Bonds one day, restoring integrity to the record. So much for that.

Maybe I'd buy into that if you could tell me how many home runs Aaron hit without the aid of greenies. Or Ruth without a corked bat.

It may be the most hallowed record in the sport, but it's also the most tainted — and always has been.


People get away with things. That doesnt mean you turn a blind eye when they dont. This isnt the first time legality will go head to head with hypocricy.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:00 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Is anyone truly shocked by this?

Between this and Joe Torre's disclosures about the Yankees being an unpleasant organization to work for, I'm not sure which surprises me less.


Yeah, in other news....

Earth rotates on its axis once every 24 hours...

...sun rises in the East...

...Obama cabinet nominee somehow forgot to pay their taxes...

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:15 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Kingston wrote:
A lot of people were looking forward to Arod passing Bonds one day, restoring integrity to the record. So much for that.

Maybe I'd buy into that if you could tell me how many home runs Aaron hit without the aid of greenies. Or Ruth without a corked bat.

It may be the most hallowed record in the sport, but it's also the most tainted — and always has been.


People get away with things. That doesnt mean you turn a blind eye when they dont. This isnt the first time legality will go head to head with hypocricy.

By the same token, you don't assume moral superiority when there's reasonable doubt. People believed what they wanted to believe and vested their hopes in ARod simply because he wasn't Barry — never mind the gaudy, steroid-esque stat lines, or that by something approaching consensus, teammates and managers can't stand him.

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Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:21 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
By the same token, you don't assume moral superiority when there's reasonable doubt. People believed what they wanted to believe and vested their hopes in ARod simply because he wasn't Barry — never mind the gaudy, steroid-esque stat lines, or that by something approaching consensus, teammates and managers can't stand him.


I dont think thats fair. There was no actual evidence about Arods steroid involvement til now (assuming the story is accurate). Now that there is, from what Im reading on various message boards, hes hardly getting a pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
I dont think thats fair. There was no actual evidence about Arods steroid involvement til now. Now that there is, from what Im reading on various message boards, hes hardly getting a pass.

Nonsense. Anyone who played between 1991 and 2005 (give or take a few years) bears an equal burden of suspicion. That's the very definition of fairness.

And I do believe his name was tossed into the discussion years ago by Jose Canseco, who more and more is looking like the Cassandra of this whole mess.

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I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


Last edited by LtCol Kojak Slaphead on Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:34 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Kingston wrote:
I dont think thats fair. There was no actual evidence about Arods steroid involvement til now. Now that there is, from what Im reading on various message boards, hes hardly getting a pass.

Nonsense. Anyone who played between 1991 and 2005 (give or take a few years) bears suspicion. That's the very definition of fairness.


Oh come on. Thats the definition of something, but fairness isnt it.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Kingston wrote:
I dont think thats fair. There was no actual evidence about Arods steroid involvement til now. Now that there is, from what Im reading on various message boards, hes hardly getting a pass.

Nonsense. Anyone who played between 1991 and 2005 (give or take a few years) bears suspicion. That's the very definition of fairness.


Oh come on. Thats the definition of something, but fairness isnt it.

Fine. If you'd prefer to cherrypick who you think/wish was clean, then bemoan the sad state of the sport when it's disclosed that they weren't, be my guest. But you've chosen a rough path. There are 103 more names on that list of positive tests, you know ... and that's just from when they started testing.

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I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:59 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Fine. If you'd prefer to cherrypick who you think/wish was clean, then bemoan the sad state of the sport when it's disclosed that they weren't, be my guest. But you've chosen a rough path. There are 103 more names on that list of positive tests, you know ... and that's just from when they started testing.


Im not cherrypicking. If this story is true Im reacting to available evidence. But casting suspicion on virtually everyone who played baseball in a given era simply isnt fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Pirates4real wrote:
I truly do not care anymore. Everybody was juicing. Does anybody still care?

Now I'm going to have to avoid watching ESPN for a while to spare myself all the sermons from these old purists.


You said it. ESPN will run this into the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
But casting suspicion on virtually everyone who played baseball in a given era simply isnt fair.

What does fairness have to do with anything? In baseball, eras are defined by their transgressions. Don't we presume that most everyone who pitched in the deadball era was slathering, scuffing and spit-polishing baseballs between every pitch? Isn't it common consensus that most players from the 50s onward used some form of amphetamine for stamina?

Besides, I tend to think that the playing field during the steroid era was far more level than the puritans would have you believe. Just as many crappy and mediocre players have been outed in this witch hunt as superstars.

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Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:55 pm 
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And what Im saying is, while eras are noted for certain transgressions, you simply cant use that to make unfounded assumptions about every individual player of that era.


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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Disappointed. Just another sad baseball story.

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
And what Im saying is, while eras are noted for certain transgressions, you simply cant use that to make unfounded assumptions about every individual player of that era.

The assumptions aren't unfounded at all. We've been hearing for years how 50% or more of the league was juicing, and many chose to shoot the messenger (not without justification) rather than hear the message. In the meantime, everyone from 1st-ballot HOFers like Roger Clemens to nobodies like Larry Bigbie have been implicated. Guys you knew were dirty like Giambi and scrappy, upstanding guys like Brian Roberts who you'd swear were clean. With that kind of saturation, I'm not morally comfortable handing out a pass to a player just because he's not as big an asshole as Barry Bonds or Gary Sheffield. (Which, in ARod's case, is a disputable point.)

We're engaging in more or less a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full argument. I think it's firmly established that I'm far less willing to give ballplayers the benefit of the doubt than you are. Then again, I don't consider steroid abuse nearly the threat to the "integrity of the game" — a mythical construct that has always been challenged and transgressed, in every generation, and will continue to be — as most seem to.

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I woke up with a clown's hand in my pants. That's what I did today.

Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


Last edited by LtCol Kojak Slaphead on Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Kingston wrote:

I dont think thats fair. There was no actual evidence about Arods steroid involvement til now (assuming the story is accurate). Now that there is, from what Im reading on various message boards, hes hardly getting a pass.



I think there was evidence prior to that, you have a 190 pound SS in Texas and a 230 pound 3rd baseman in New York...but no one really cared because his name wasnt Bonds

I could less and these writers and the media need to get this out of their systems and let the game move on...

A Rod did steroids but guess what? He didnt break any MLB rules so its legal...if the media wants to go after someone, go after Selig for allowing this to go on as long as it did...

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 Post subject: Re: Arod Tests Positive
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:49 pm 
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A Rod through the years via Sports Illustrated


http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm


When I looked at the pictures you see normal growth from someone in their young 20's his years through Seattle and 1st few in Texas but from 2003 on I see a change in his appearance...maybe SI did a good job of fixing the photos but I've noticed it before...

There were discussions on the board before that have come up about the Jeter and A Rod whose the better SS or, when we'd have the classic all decade team discussions, and some thought Alex is too big now to play SS

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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