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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:02 pm 
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urbman21 wrote:
Trust me the Rays are going to unload everybody before the deadline.


Disagreed. PETOCA still sees them as one of the best teams in the AL East going forward, and I don't think Friedman/that FO is going to punt because of a down year riddled with bad luck (injuries to the pitching staff -- Moore, Cobb, Hellickson, Archer) the first half slumps of Longoria and Myers who will rebound, Molina posting historically bad numbers at the plate due to Hanigan's injury). Maybe they unload someone like Zobrist who will be a FA next year, but not likely to get much back as he is at an age of decline. The same roster returns next year while staying somewhat healthy, and it's just as much of a potential contender as they were thought to be coming into this year.

I do think they have an uphill battle in the next 5 years or so, as they have drafted as badly as any team in the league the last few years, and sometimes those swing moves like acquiring Myers aren't always available. But I think they stick with what they have this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:04 pm 
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I think they'll unload Price and Zobrist for prospect packages but yeah I don't think they're just going to blow it up. Still have a nice nucleus of Myers, Longoria, and Jennings and the makings of a strong staff with Moore, Cobb, and Archer. Then you figure they'll wind up getting something out of Odorizzi/Hellickson.

Would be shocked if we saw Glasnow up for the Pirates this year, he's still really raw mechanically and needs a 3rd pitch. It wouldn't shock me though if he moves through AA quickly once he develops at least an average changeup.

Maybe you see Kingham up in September but I can't imagine them bucking their pitcher development trend over him. He's good, but not a guy like Cole or Taillon. And I think he's better than the guys who profile as 4/5 starters (and are thus easily replaceable) so I think they'll be wary of Super Two with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:34 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Looks like the Pirates may be willing to start the service time clock on Nick Kingham later this season. They just promoted him to Indianapolis:

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014/06 ... polis.html

The Pirates are not going to call up Kingham this season. They just aren't.

He is 22 years old and was just moved to AAA. He spends the rest of 2014 in AAA, and starts 2015 in AAA with Taillon.

Both then move to the major league roster in June of 2015. Both are then Pirates through at least the 2021 season.

Cole, Taillon, Kingham, Morton and a 5th starter (out of Locke, Cumpton, Pimentel, Worley, etc.) will man the rotation for most of next season.

However, the Pirates cannot have a 3-man rotation for the first 2 1/2 months of the season. A 1-year deal to a guy like McCarthy is going to have to happen.

I am not really a fan of trading for a SP'er right now for the simple reason that the other team is going to demand somebody like Kingham in return. The price is much higher in June and July than it is in the offseason.

Deal Kingham or a position player like Meadows, or Hanson, or Bell for a No. 4 or 5 SP'er, where the team has legit power arms on the way? @#$% that.


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Good article from Tim Williams today that touches on some of these issues:

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2014/06 ... llers.html

His "untouchables" list in terms of prospects is as follows: The guys I wouldn’t trade are Reese McGuire, Alen Hanson, Jameson Taillon, Tyler Glasnow, Nick Kingham, or Austin Meadows. To sum those up, you’ve got potential starters at positions where the Pirates have a long-term need (McGuire and Hanson); potential mid-to-top of the rotation guys who are close to the majors at a time when the Pirates need starters (Taillon, Glasnow, and Kingham); and Meadows, who I wouldn’t deal while his value is low.


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm 
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I wouldn't trade Bell either, still not sold on Ike and with Lambo hurt it's tough to evaluate his status as legitimate option or AAAA guy. Don't think Allie is a likely option.

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:37 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
I wouldn't trade Bell either, still not sold on Ike and with Lambo hurt it's tough to evaluate his status as legitimate option or AAAA guy. Don't think Allie is a likely option.


I'd trade Bell as part of a package for a very good starting pitcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:44 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
I wouldn't trade Bell either, still not sold on Ike and with Lambo hurt it's tough to evaluate his status as legitimate option or AAAA guy. Don't think Allie is a likely option.


Yeah, it's shocking that Williams doesn't even mention in the article that Bell will almost certainly switch to 1B, even though P2 itself has speculated as such several times. Obviously if he was staying at corner OF then the assessment would be correct that he's the most logical trade piece. I like Ike (no pun intended) and wouldn't mind seeing him extended (especially if he shows to be the LaRoche-esque second half hitter he has been in his career), but with Dickerson traded, 1B depth would literally be non-existent without Bell. Allie is looking more like a failed experiment at this point, Curry and Hague are just depth pieces at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:46 pm 
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Yeah I'd do it for a guy like Archer (just a name from up thread) but not for a year and a half of somebody. Regardless of how good they are.

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 Post subject: Re: Decision Time -- 2014 Pirates Season
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:39 pm 
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He says "Losing someone like Bell wouldn’t hurt the Pirates."

It absolutely could, if he turns out to be a really good player and we traded him for a rental player. Bell could turn out to be better than Marte or Polanco. Let him get closer to MLB ready and then worry about where he fits.

The Pirates can't be trading top prospects for top veterans. If anything, it has to be the other way around.


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