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 Post subject: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:21 pm 
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but Cutch does.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/s ... id=3840355

Pedro did make the top 50 but he is behind Tabata (32) at No. 38.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:18 am 
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That's quite a discrepancy between Law's and Callis's rankings.

Does someone have ESPN Insider who could post Law's write-up of Pedro?

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:19 am 
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WOW a sportswriter with sence.This hasn't been seen in awhile.He isn't a top 25 hes not a top 50 and hes bordline top 100 prospects


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:38 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
WOW a sportswriter with sence.This hasn't been seen in awhile.He isn't a top 25 hes not a top 50 and hes bordline top 100 prospects


Remind us why, again, Colin.... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:52 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
WOW a sportswriter with sence.This hasn't been seen in awhile.He isn't a top 25 hes not a top 50 and hes bordline top 100 prospects

38 isn't in the top 50?

Is this that new math I keep hearing about?

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:01 am 
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It'll be a cold day in hell when Law has something positive to say about Pittsburgh. He has some ax to grind from somewhere. I've heard him on the radio a number of times, and he simply cannot get himself to say anything positive about the Pirates, even when they do the obvious like selecting Pedro.

This might be the best you can expect from him

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:15 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
It'll be a cold day in hell when Law has something positive to say about Pittsburgh. He has some ax to grind from somewhere. I've heard him on the radio a number of times, and he simply cannot get himself to say anything positive about the Pirates, even when they do the obvious like selecting Pedro.

This might be the best you can expect from him

ZM

Bundle up. In the same article, which Kingston posted on the other day, Law was fairly complimentary to both McCutchen (who he ranked #18) and to the new front office.

Quote:
Andrew McCutchen has been rushed. Repeat after me: He … has … been … rushed. This isn't a criticism of the current regime in Pittsburgh, as the rushing all took place before Neal Huntington could even get a catalog to pick out new drapes for his office, but they inherited a player who had arrived in Triple-A before his 21st birthday despite posting a .710 OPS in Double-A, a level he reached after the Pirates skipped him right past high-A. He's been rushed, I say. The good thing is that he has survived this hazing and even performed well in several areas, notably his plate discipline. McCutchen has strong wrists and forearms and makes hard contact, but doesn't get his lower half involved at all and thus hasn't hit for the kind of power he's capable of producing. He has great bat speed and has hit for average while making plenty of contact. He's a 65-70 runner but had an uncharacteristically sloppy year as a base stealer; he's a plus glove in center but could use a little work on routes. The power should come -- he's too young for us to assume that it won't -- and the new regime in Pittsburgh has a much better player-development protocol in place.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:21 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
WOW a sportswriter with sence.This hasn't been seen in awhile.He isn't a top 25 hes not a top 50 and hes bordline top 100 prospects


Remind us why, again, Colin.... :roll:



Those 0 pro ABs might have something to do with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
BBF wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
WOW a sportswriter with sence.This hasn't been seen in awhile.He isn't a top 25 hes not a top 50 and hes bordline top 100 prospects


Remind us why, again, Colin.... :roll:



Those 0 pro ABs might have something to do with it.

You're totally right, Jeremy. Let's just dump him. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:47 pm 
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It just stings you when someone doesn't share your rose tinted glasses perception of Alvarez doesn't it?

The simple fact is that Alvarez hasn't seen a professional pitch yet. Yes, he was a dominant college player. But even the best college baseball only equates to maybe High A ball, and that's when you reach the CWS. The SEC, where Vandy played, is rookie league level with some splashes of Low A.

Pro ball and amateur ball are totally different animals. Only the very naive and very stupid would argue that. You can either accept that fact that some scouts are skeptical of any amateur players until they've had 500-1000 pro ABs under their belts, or you can't. Either way, I don't really care anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
You can either accept that fact that some scouts are skeptical of any amateur players until they've had 500-1000 pro ABs under their belts, or you can't. Either way, I don't really care anymore.


But likewise, scouts don't completely discard an amateur player before they've had some pro-AB's either, as you are doing. You are every bit as guilty as those with the "rose colored glasses".


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:07 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
That's quite a discrepancy between Law's and Callis's rankings.

Does someone have ESPN Insider who could post Law's write-up of Pedro?


32 Jose Tabata OF Pittsburgh Pirates
TOP '08 LEVEL: AA (Altoona) 21 20
Your guess is as good as mine at this point. Tabata can hit, and for most of his pro career, he has hit, with a career .296/.366/.401 line up through Double-A. Almost all came before his 20th birthday. But Tabata took the first few months of 2008 off, at least mentally; he showed up at the ballpark, but his attitude was horrible -- failing to run out ground balls, not working at-bats and earning a suspension for throwing a tantrum on the field after a call went against him.

I'm sure Yankee fans who saw him play or followed his 0-fers in the box scores were absolutely galled to see him go to the Pirates and turn the jets back on, as he hit .348/.402/.562 with 11 extra-base hits (he had just 12 in four months with the Yankees) and eight stolen bases in just 22 games. That's the Jose Tabata who was in my top 10 two years ago: a teenager who showed he could hit against older competition in full-season ball.

When Tabata feels like it, he can hit. He has outstanding hand-eye coordination and recognizes pitches well, so he squares balls up well and doesn't swing and miss that often. (Even during his off year in Trenton this past season, he only struck out in 15 percent of his plate appearances.) He has above-average power, but it hasn't shown up in games other than his tiny sample with Altoona. He can run, and does it well, going 18-for-20 in steals over all of 2008.

The Pirates have returned him to center field for now, but the presence of Andrew McCutchen makes it unlikely that Tabata will play there in the majors; he has the range and plus arm to be an asset in right. Where he goes from here is up to him. He could end up in the top 10 again next offseason if he plays hard all year in 2009, and he's indicated to Pirates' brass that he realizes he needs to grow up. If not, he'll just keep dropping until he's off the list entirely.


38 Pedro Alvarez 3B/1B Pittsburgh Pirates
TOP '08 LEVEL: N/A IE 21
Alvarez needs to consider hiring a publicist, as just about every story about him over the past seven months has been unflattering, from the minor scandal when he and his agent, Scott Boras, called the Pirates out for violating the terms of the CBA and then settled for a $250,000 dollar increase in Alvarez's signing bonus to recent reports that he was out of shape in the Pirates' mini-camp and is already experiencing tendinitis in his knees. Conditioning has always been an issue for Alvarez dating back to his freshman summer with Team USA, and it's the main reason he's likely to end up at first base.

At the plate, Alvarez is strong and has a high-effort swing that produces big power and lots of hard contact, mostly to right and right-center, but he has struggled with left-handers. In general, he didn't make enough contact in the SEC after coming back from a broken hamate (hand) bone. His setup, with an extremely wide base that doesn't give him much chance to adjust to offspeed stuff, isn't helping, but it's fixable. Plus, you can't teach the kind of raw power Alvarez has.

The bonus kerfuffle cost him any chance to play in 2008, even in winter ball, so all we have now are year-old scouting reports and questions about his conditioning and commitment. He could be in the top 10 next year with a full, healthy season in which he addresses concerns about his ability to make contact.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:

The simple fact is that Alvarez hasn't seen a professional pitch yet. Yes, he was a dominant college player. But even the best college baseball only equates to maybe High A ball, and that's when you reach the CWS. The SEC, where Vandy played, is rookie league level with some splashes of Low A.

Pro ball and amateur ball are totally different animals. Only the very naive and very stupid would argue that. You can either accept that fact that some scouts are skeptical of any amateur players until they've had 500-1000 pro ABs under their belts, or you can't. Either way, I don't really care anymore.


None of this matters. Every drafted player comes out of high school or college. So according to you, none of them, not last year, this year, or next year, can be assigned prospect status, no baseball analyst can project a ceiling for any of them. Not only is that wrong but its not specific to Alvarez.

You want to make a case that its way too early to be assured of his ML success? Thats fine, but again, no one is guaranteeing anything. All thats happening now is a collection of trained eyes have seen this kids tools, skill set, whatever you want to call it, and at this point they are assigning elite prospect status because they are very excited by what they see and what he is capable of becoming.

You, on the other hand, after the exact same 0 pro at bats, have already labeled this kid a bust. The organization finally, finally, uses its early pick to select the best player in the draft... and thats still not good enough for you. Whats important is finding a reason to complain.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:18 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
You can either accept that fact that some scouts are skeptical of any amateur players until they've had 500-1000 pro ABs under their belts, or you can't. Either way, I don't really care anymore.


But likewise, scouts don't completely discard an amateur player before they've had some pro-AB's either, as you are doing. You are every bit as guilty as those with the "rose colored glasses".



Fair enough, I'm more than willing to concede that point.

And in the interests of fairness, I HAVE NOT labeled Alvarez a bust. I have said he lacks maturity and his conditioning is a major concern to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:

And in the interests of fairness, I HAVE NOT labeled Alvarez a bust. I have said he lacks maturity and his conditioning is a major concern to me.


No? Heres your direct quote from the Discouraging News About Alvarez thread...


A kid with a bad attitude, poor work ethic, and a helicopter agent......he has "MASSIVE BUST" written across his forehead.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
Jeremy wrote:

And in the interests of fairness, I HAVE NOT labeled Alvarez a bust. I have said he lacks maturity and his conditioning is a major concern to me.


No? Heres your direct quote from the Discouraging News About Alvarez thread...


A kid with a bad attitude, poor work ethic, and a helicopter agent......he has "MASSIVE BUST" written across his forehead.



Your reading comprehension skills need some work.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Kingston wrote:
Jeremy wrote:

And in the interests of fairness, I HAVE NOT labeled Alvarez a bust. I have said he lacks maturity and his conditioning is a major concern to me.


No? Heres your direct quote from the Discouraging News About Alvarez thread...


A kid with a bad attitude, poor work ethic, and a helicopter agent......he has "MASSIVE BUST" written across his forehead.



Your reading comprehension skills need some work.


Youre right. You didnt label him a bust. You labeled him a Massive Bust.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:50 pm 
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You guys need to lighten up on this guy. He hasn't even played an inning. If 2-3 years from now he is hitting 235 at AA then ok. 18-22 year olds make mistakes of all magnitude and always will. I don't suppose any of us did stupid things at that age did we. LOL. Take a chill and go along for the ride.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
You guys need to lighten up on this guy. He hasn't even played an inning. If 2-3 years from now he is hitting 235 at AA then ok. 18-22 year olds make mistakes of all magnitude and always will. I don't suppose any of us did stupid things at that age did we. LOL. Take a chill and go along for the ride.



AZ, I already know that it takes new players between 500-1000 (the number depends on the scout) pro ABs before anyone really knows how good they're going to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro doesn't make Keith Law's top 25
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Maybe i am alittle Hard on Pedro but i know if i was making that kind of money and trying to make it to the majors as soon as i can i wouldn't show up out of shape and with a bad attitude.I will take back what i said and say he is a top 100 prospect but i really think there are atleast 50 that i would put infront of him right now.Now when we drafted him i would have said he was a top 10 overall prospect for the majors but his attitude and now him showing up hurting and out of shape makes me think he won't amount to much or if he does amount to much it won't be for very long.


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