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 Post subject: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Interesting data. Have to wonder how long the Pirates have known this when they've gone after sinkerballers or guys with previous control issues.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/baseballs-anti-tto-ballpark/

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Probably early on in Huntington's tenure.

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:39 pm 
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So what are we to conclude about this data? That hitters see the ball better at PNC Park, they just can't hit it out of there? I guess that makes some level of sense.


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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:02 am 
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Yeah like they said, the data is compelling, it's just figuring out what the causation is.

I thought it was potentially relevant when they theorized that pitchers are less likely to nibble and paint corners because they know they won't get killed by the long ball.

Might help to explain their willingness to consistently take on guys with historically shaky control (Burnett, Bedard, Liriano, Volquez).

Also kind of makes you wonder what Pedro would be outside of Pittsburgh.

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:02 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Yeah like they said, the data is compelling, it's just figuring out what the causation is.

I thought it was potentially relevant when they theorized that pitchers are less likely to nibble and paint corners because they know they won't get killed by the long ball.

Might help to explain their willingness to consistently take on guys with historically shaky control (Burnett, Bedard, Liriano, Volquez).

Also kind of makes you wonder what Pedro would be outside of Pittsburgh.



Not sure any of those guys would be classified as nibblers though. Bedard, maybe. They are mostly hard throwers with mechanical issues. I guess the case can be made that because of PNC Park guys with shaky control are more fixable.

I would think the ballpark factors at PNC would make the Pirates more interested than other teams in soft tossing left handers and fly ball pitchers. Those are cheap/undervalued types of pitchers that are hurt less in PNC. They've actually shied away from those types. They covet hard throwing projectable right handers.


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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:14 pm 
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mjdouble wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Yeah like they said, the data is compelling, it's just figuring out what the causation is.

I thought it was potentially relevant when they theorized that pitchers are less likely to nibble and paint corners because they know they won't get killed by the long ball.

Might help to explain their willingness to consistently take on guys with historically shaky control (Burnett, Bedard, Liriano, Volquez).

Also kind of makes you wonder what Pedro would be outside of Pittsburgh.



Not sure any of those guys would be classified as nibblers though. Bedard, maybe. They are mostly hard throwers with mechanical issues. I guess the case can be made that because of PNC Park guys with shaky control are more fixable.

I would think the ballpark factors at PNC would make the Pirates more interested than other teams in soft tossing left handers and fly ball pitchers. Those are cheap/undervalued types of pitchers that are hurt less in PNC. They've actually shied away from those types. They covet hard throwing projectable right handers.


They tried it before: Zach Duke, Paul Maholm, and Tom Gorzelanny.

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:33 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
mjdouble wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Yeah like they said, the data is compelling, it's just figuring out what the causation is.

I thought it was potentially relevant when they theorized that pitchers are less likely to nibble and paint corners because they know they won't get killed by the long ball.

Might help to explain their willingness to consistently take on guys with historically shaky control (Burnett, Bedard, Liriano, Volquez).

Also kind of makes you wonder what Pedro would be outside of Pittsburgh.



Not sure any of those guys would be classified as nibblers though. Bedard, maybe. They are mostly hard throwers with mechanical issues. I guess the case can be made that because of PNC Park guys with shaky control are more fixable.

I would think the ballpark factors at PNC would make the Pirates more interested than other teams in soft tossing left handers and fly ball pitchers. Those are cheap/undervalued types of pitchers that are hurt less in PNC. They've actually shied away from those types. They covet hard throwing projectable right handers.


They tried it before: Zach Duke, Paul Maholm, and Tom Gorzelanny.


Yes, that is my point. They've moved away from those types while drafting a ton of big, projectable right handers. To be fair those lefties were flops because of the roles they were in. Nothing wrong with those guys as back end of the rotation starters. I'd personally much rather have Maholm or Joe Saunders as the 5th starter this year than Volquez.


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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:42 pm 
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mjdouble wrote:
Yes, that is my point. They've moved away from those types while drafting a ton of big, projectable right handers. To be fair those lefties were flops because of the roles they were in. Nothing wrong with those guys as back end of the rotation starters. I'd personally much rather have Maholm or Joe Saunders as the 5th starter this year than Volquez.


I don't ever want to see them back in a Pirate uniform again. Maholm has had knee issues since college that seem to flare up every couple of years that seems could have been easily corrected with surgery. No way. It only took Maholm a sit down meeting with Hurdle who showed him the Rangers' scouting report on him before he fixed himself.

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:54 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
mjdouble wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Yeah like they said, the data is compelling, it's just figuring out what the causation is.

I thought it was potentially relevant when they theorized that pitchers are less likely to nibble and paint corners because they know they won't get killed by the long ball.

Might help to explain their willingness to consistently take on guys with historically shaky control (Burnett, Bedard, Liriano, Volquez).

Also kind of makes you wonder what Pedro would be outside of Pittsburgh.



Not sure any of those guys would be classified as nibblers though. Bedard, maybe. They are mostly hard throwers with mechanical issues. I guess the case can be made that because of PNC Park guys with shaky control are more fixable.

I would think the ballpark factors at PNC would make the Pirates more interested than other teams in soft tossing left handers and fly ball pitchers. Those are cheap/undervalued types of pitchers that are hurt less in PNC. They've actually shied away from those types. They covet hard throwing projectable right handers.


They tried it before: Zach Duke, Paul Maholm, and Tom Gorzelanny.


Jeff Locke this year.

Also think there's a bit of a difference between a guy who does nothing but nibble and a guy with great stuff who focuses too much on painting corners or trying not to challenge a guy because of the potential for a pop-fly HR at Great American, Citizens Bank, or US Cellular.

Pretty much what this data is saying is that Pirates pitchers walk and strikeout significantly more players on the road (while giving up way more HR) than at home. Same trend for opponents, with fewer K's, BB's and HR at PNC than when the Pirates are on the road.

So in theory for the Pirates, you could bring in a guy with control issues but good stuff, and it can make him a very effective pitcher for ~50% of his starts.

Just was an interesting writeup. We knew PNC automatically suppresses runs and homers, but never really got into the K's and BB's.

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Who was the pitcher we had in the very recent past with dramatic home-road splits?

Was it Correia?


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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:51 pm 
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Liriano had huge splits last year.

Home: 1.47 ERA, 0.964 WHIP, 26 BB's, 72 K's, 2 HR's in 11 starts (73.2 innings)
Away: 4.33 ERA, 1.443 WHIP, 37 BB's, 91 K's, 7 HR's in 15 starts (87.1 innings)

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 Post subject: Re: The beauty (and oddity) of PNC Park [Fangraphs writeup]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:34 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Liriano had huge splits last year.

Home: 1.47 ERA, 0.964 WHIP, 26 BB's, 72 K's, 2 HR's in 11 starts (73.2 innings)
Away: 4.33 ERA, 1.443 WHIP, 37 BB's, 91 K's, 7 HR's in 15 starts (87.1 innings)


That's a bit skewed by his one HORRENDOUS game at Coors Field. Take that out and his away splits look a lot better.


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