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 Post subject: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:20 am 
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Just read it this morning that they are one of the 5 or so teams available. While they certainly have the ammo, I'm afraid that they're gonna sell off the farm every time I read one of these types of articles. I'd rather sell it for Stanton than Price but I do like Price.

EDIT: Link

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2013/12/4/517 ... avid-price

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:45 am 
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As long as the Pirates don't give up Gregory Polanco, I'd be OK with acquiring Price. What would it take? Jameson Taillon, Alen Hanson, and one more mid-level guy?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:47 am 
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The strawman runneth over in that article.

"Give up the farm system"???

And, why in the world would the Pirates be interesting in paying a guy a decade younger than Burnett with similiar numbers?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:24 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And, why in the world would the Pirates be interesting in paying a guy a decade younger than Burnett with similiar numbers?

ZM


Disclaimer...I am not necessarily a proponent of this trade, as I would need to see the cost in prospects before supporting it. However, do not compare Price to Burnett. I love AJ's fiery demeanor and his numbers have been decent the two years he's been here, but he doesn't hold water against Price. The article mentions projected WAR as the comparison...PROJECTED! Look at the last four years AND consider the fact AJ is on the very tail end of his career while Price is entering his prime.

ERA+ the last fours ('10 - '13):
Burnett: 82, 83, 107, 107.
Price: 144, 108, 150, 114

WHIP, ERA, SO/BB all favor Price (significantly in some cases) during that stretch. Keep in mind that Price did that for all four years in the AL East. The two years from this sample size that AJ was in the AL East, we're his putrid ones. What would Price do in the NL Central?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Sorry, irony does not come across well on the internet.

That was my (try) at a point. Wilmouth compares WARs of the two and, completely disregarding age difference, wonders why Price is worth 14 mil but Burnett is not, to the Pirates.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Jory Rand (KDKA Sports) posted a few tweets on this...

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:52 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Wilmouth compares WARs of the two and, completely disregarding age difference, wonders why Price is worth 14 mil but Burnett is not, to the Pirates.

ZM


I didn't compare their WARs, I compared their <i>projected</i> WARs -- that is, Steamer projects Burnett and Price will be similar in value <i>next year</i>. And even so, I don't say they are equal in value. (Read the sentence after the one about WAR.) I also do not say that the Pirates would refuse, in a vacuum, to pay David Price $14 million. I'd hope they would, happily. I'm arguing that the difference is not so great that it would be worth paying a similar amount to Price <i>and</i> giving up a ton of young talent -- which, if you've been paying attention, you know is what's likely to be required. The "giving up their entire farm system" obviously was hyperbole, but they'd likely have to give up three out of their top 10 prospects, or some other excellent package involving major-league players.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:24 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
As long as the Pirates don't give up Gregory Polanco, I'd be OK with acquiring Price. What would it take? Jameson Taillon, Alen Hanson, and one more mid-level guy?


Polanco over Taillon?

What exactly has Polanco done to make him so untouchable? Last I checked he has done nothing in the Major Leagues.

I'm not saying I would give him up for Price....I'm just curious. I know he has the tools but there is nothing guaranteed with him. Until he comes up and shows that he can make it, we have a hole in RF.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:24 pm 
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charlie wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Wilmouth compares WARs of the two and, completely disregarding age difference, wonders why Price is worth 14 mil but Burnett is not, to the Pirates.

ZM


I didn't compare their WARs, I compared their <i>projected</i> WARs -- that is, Steamer projects Burnett and Price will be similar in value <i>next year</i>. And even so, I don't say they are equal in value. (Read the sentence after the one about WAR.) I also do not say that the Pirates would refuse, in a vacuum, to pay David Price $14 million. I'd hope they would, happily. I'm arguing that the difference is not so great that it would be worth paying a similar amount to Price <i>and</i> giving up a ton of young talent -- which, if you've been paying attention, you know is what's likely to be required. The "giving up their entire farm system" obviously was hyperbole, but they'd likely have to give up three out of their top 10 prospects, or some other excellent package involving major-league players.


Sorry charlie, I stand by my overall point. I am very skeptical of a projected WAR for a 38 yo with only a year left vis a vis a guy almost a decade younger. I think it very obvious why you would pay Price and pass on Burnett at the same price.

Obviously, this is moot now that the Pirates are not running after Price.

I'll go back to pining for Lind to platoon with Gabby at 1b.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:43 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
As long as the Pirates don't give up Gregory Polanco, I'd be OK with acquiring Price. What would it take? Jameson Taillon, Alen Hanson, and one more mid-level guy?


Polanco over Taillon?

What exactly has Polanco done to make him so untouchable? Last I checked he has done nothing in the Major Leagues.

I'm not saying I would give him up for Price....I'm just curious. I know he has the tools but there is nothing guaranteed with him. Until he comes up and shows that he can make it, we have a hole in RF.


Pitching prospects are more fragile than position player prospects. Polanco projects to be a very good, patient hitter, with power, who can play excellent defense. A potential star. I'm not giving that up because the Pirates have NO chance of getting that type of position player in free agency. But the Pirates have stockpiled young arms throughout their farm system and signed some free agents who worked and traded for guys who worked out.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:25 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
Just read it this morning that they are one of the 5 or so teams available. While they certainly have the ammo, I'm afraid that they're gonna sell off the farm every time I read one of these types of articles. I'd rather sell it for Stanton than Price but I do like Price.

EDIT: Link

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2013/12/4/517 ... avid-price

I expect that they'll stay interested in Price, right up until the time that the Rays make their demands, at which point they will no longer be interested.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:26 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
As long as the Pirates don't give up Gregory Polanco, I'd be OK with acquiring Price. What would it take? Jameson Taillon, Alen Hanson, and one more mid-level guy?

Too much for two years of Price. While prospects are no sure thing, neither are pitchers due to the injury factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:37 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
charlie wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Wilmouth compares WARs of the two and, completely disregarding age difference, wonders why Price is worth 14 mil but Burnett is not, to the Pirates.

ZM


I didn't compare their WARs, I compared their <i>projected</i> WARs -- that is, Steamer projects Burnett and Price will be similar in value <i>next year</i>. And even so, I don't say they are equal in value. (Read the sentence after the one about WAR.) I also do not say that the Pirates would refuse, in a vacuum, to pay David Price $14 million. I'd hope they would, happily. I'm arguing that the difference is not so great that it would be worth paying a similar amount to Price <i>and</i> giving up a ton of young talent -- which, if you've been paying attention, you know is what's likely to be required. The "giving up their entire farm system" obviously was hyperbole, but they'd likely have to give up three out of their top 10 prospects, or some other excellent package involving major-league players.


Sorry charlie, I stand by my overall point. I am very skeptical of a projected WAR for a 38 yo with only a year left vis a vis a guy almost a decade younger. I think it very obvious why you would pay Price and pass on Burnett at the same price.

Obviously, this is moot now that the Pirates are not running after Price.

I'll go back to pining for Lind to platoon with Gabby at 1b.

ZM




I'm not sure you guys are even disagreeing.

I hope they get Lind, I too think that would be a great acquisition.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates interested in David Price trade
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:11 pm 
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With the M's making the first BIG mistake of the offseason, it would not be shocking for them to make the next, as well.

They were rumored to have offered Taijuan Walker (and possibly more) for Price.

One could see them going full Dayton Moore/2012 Marlins, subjecting themselves to trade rape by Friedman and co.

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