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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Prove he is a punk, how has he shown he is a punk. He has an asshole agent and I cant blame him for trying to get as much money as he can.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Prove he is a punk, how has he shown he is a punk. He has an asshole agent and I cant blame him for trying to get as much money as he can.


I just think he is proving he doesn't care to try because hes on a bad team.I don't look for big numbers even in single A this year


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:55 am 
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Colin what are you talking about? You just said he doesnt care to try because he is on a bad team...What does him having being on a bad team say that he doesnt try or care?
He just got there he hasnt done anything to be positive or negative!

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:14 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Colin what are you talking about? You just said he doesnt care to try because he is on a bad team...What does him having being on a bad team say that he doesnt try or care?
He just got there he hasnt done anything to be positive or negative!


Being that out of shape is not trying.
He's collecting


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:36 am 
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The Pirates have sucked for many years with nice guys. Let's try sucking with some "clubhouse cancer" players. Why should fans care what happens in the dugout?

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:47 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
The Pirates have sucked for many years with nice guys. Let's try sucking with some "clubhouse cancer" players. Why should fans care what happens in the dugout?


Well im all for signing Pedro Martinez


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:05 am 
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Willton wrote:
Who gives a f***? If the guy can pitch, let him pitch. The whole "clubhouse cancer" thing is totally overblown, if not irrelevant.


Couldn't agree more.
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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:37 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Jeremy needs to get some facts in his head. There has never been any instances where he has been considered a clubhouse cancer. He is the same person who calls pedro alvarez a shitty little punk because he came to camp a little bit out of shape, and he calls for him being traded.



He was considered a clubhouse cancer with the Mets.

I'm starting to think you either really don't know baseball or you want to see our young players crash and burn worse than what's been happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:58 am 
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Im asking you to give some facts and exact instances he has been a clubhouse cancer. You have no proof or evidence you just like to go randomly call players jerks when you know nothing about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:00 am 
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I'd be less concerned about Pedro's purported/apocryphal negative clubhouse influence, and more concerned that the guy is gassed. He hasn't pitched over 200 innings since 2005, and last year posted the lowest K/9 rate, the highest HR/9 rate and second highest BB/9 rate of his career. Those aren't good trends.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:32 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Im asking you to give some facts and exact instances he has been a clubhouse cancer. You have no proof or evidence you just like to go randomly call players jerks when you know nothing about them.


Last


year


with


the


Mets.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:35 am 
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For God sakes how many people do they think this guy will REALLY put in the stands? This guy is finished! He throws his once dominant fastball at what??? 85 mph??? After watching him for a few outings it won't matter if he burns the clubhouse down...nobody will be there to see it.

I like some of the things Huntington has done. This group seems far more baseball savvy than the last two idiotic regimes. However a signing like this, because we couldn't sign anyone else, would have me wondering. We have enough young guys to find out about this year. I would hate to see them waste a rotation spot on a has been instead of Gorzo, Olendorf, etc. The fact that we are even interested is a bit of a head scratcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:41 am 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
I'd be less concerned about Pedro's purported/apocryphal negative clubhouse influence, and more concerned that the guy is gassed. He hasn't pitched over 200 innings since 2005, and last year posted the lowest K/9 rate, the highest HR/9 rate and second highest BB/9 rate of his career. Those aren't good trends.


I would tend to agree, but must say that if we're looking for cheap bounceback (if a 37 year old can even qualify for this category) candidates, we could do a lot worse. If the price is right.

If you look at his monthly 2008 stats he was horrible through June, actually was good in July and August, then hit the wall in September. Maybe it took him a while to knock the rust off and then he showed his true potential in July and August before tiring in September? Maybe July and August were flukes? Don't really know. Even though his control is very un Pedro like, his K:BB ratio is a respectible 2:1. His fastball sits in the very low 90s.

I'm not advocating him as a must sign, but do find him intriguing. Could be my rose colored HOF glasses clouding my judgement though.

And as for the clubhouse cancer thing, I don't recall the Mets bringing that up. As a matter of fact, I could have sworn Willie Randolph had nothing but nice things to say about him.

Quote:
Martinez, who is well-liked throughout the clubhouse for, among other things, his lighthearted joking, said yesterday he was aware of the problems.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... _07-2.html


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:46 am 
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Wasn't Randolph fired?


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:53 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Wasn't Randolph fired?


LOL. So you admit you have nothing substantive to support your "Martinez is a clubhouse cancer" claim?


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Wasn't Randolph fired?


LOL. So you admit you have nothing substantive to support your "Martinez is a clubhouse cancer" claim?



The fact that he's been called that more than once in his career doesn't count?


Look.....why don't you guys call up the FO and get them to sign Pedro. Then we can see who's right and who's wrong. To this point every reason I've seen for signing him has been laughable.

1. He'll help the rotation: How is he going to do that when he can't throw more than 150 innings anymore? Another 5 innings and done starter isn't what Pittsburgh's overworked bullpen needs right now. His best pitch is now a joke and unlike other pitchers who learned to throw other stuff, Pedro hasn't really embraced the fact that his fastball sucks.

2. Young guys like Snell can learn from him: At no point in his career has Pedro ever been noted as a dude who works with young players. Besides, there's nothing Ian can learn in person that he can't learn in the film room.

3. He'll put butts in the seats: Why don't we sign Griffey and Bonds then? They'll put butts in the seats every night. Besides, Pedro has become a guy who needs a couple of long stints on the DL just to make it to September. It's hard to put butts in the seats when you're in the trainer's room, or your living room.

I understand some of you just want Pittsburgh to sign a "name" FA so you can feel better about the off season. But I don't think that way. Sorry, but Pedro is waste of money and no amount of ta dancing and spin can change that.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
I understand some of you just want Pittsburgh to sign a "name" FA so you can feel better about the off season. But I don't think that way. Sorry, but Pedro is waste of money and no amount of ta dancing and spin can change that.


Other than he's 37 and no longer throws 97mph, his change and curve are still plus pitches. Everone that I've come across agrees that if he can learn to work "backwards" he can be effective. The million dollar question is can he? I don't even pretend to know the answer to that question, but I do know that he has the tools right now at his disposal to be an effective off speed type starter.

I think this guy does a nice job of putting into words what I'm trying to say:

Is Pedro Martinez Finished? http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index. ... -finished/


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
I understand some of you just want Pittsburgh to sign a "name" FA so you can feel better about the off season. But I don't think that way. Sorry, but Pedro is waste of money and no amount of ta dancing and spin can change that.


Other than he's 37 and no longer throws 97mph, his change and curve are still plus pitches. Everone that I've come across agrees that if he can learn to work "backwards" he can be effective. The million dollar question is can he? I don't even pretend to know the answer to that question, but I do know that he has the tools right now at his disposal to be an effective off speed type starter.

I think this guy does a nice job of putting into words what I'm trying to say:

Is Pedro Martinez Finished? http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index. ... -finished/


If. Is that IF worth 7-8 million a year? Even if he comes down to 5 million, that's still a lot of coin to be dropping on a 37 year old with a recent history of major breakdown injury problems. hamstrings and rotator cuffs are nothing to be overlooked when a guy is as baseball old as he is.

Sorry, but for me it's a dumb baseball move.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Jeremy you repeat he is a clubhouse cancer but you have NO REASONS how or instances, or even facts that he is a clubhouse cancer. Your reasons are he played for the mets and his manager got fired? Wow you need to stop the rants you have against martinez and alvarez because you have no idea what you are talking about.
To answer your points.
1. His best pitch is not a joke he still is a very helpful pitcher. He isnt overpowering he is a crafty smart pitcher.
2. At no point has he been regarded as someone who doesnt work with younger players.
3. It MORE then just butts in the seats but that is a slightly added bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro a Pirate?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Jeremy you repeat he is a clubhouse cancer but you have NO REASONS how or instances, or even facts that he is a clubhouse cancer. Your reasons are he played for the mets and his manager got fired? Wow you need to stop the rants you have against martinez and alvarez because you have no idea what you are talking about.
To answer your points.
1. His best pitch is not a joke he still is a very helpful pitcher. He isnt overpowering he is a crafty smart pitcher.
2. At no point has he been regarded as someone who doesnt work with younger players.
3. It MORE then just butts in the seats but that is a slightly added bonus.



Your whole point was that he would help Snell. That's stupid. Pedro has been known throughout his whole career as a "last in, first out" kind of guy. If you're going to sit here and say that's not true, then you're ignoring the dude's whole history.

But let me go back to your first point. An 86 MPH fastball is a joke. Especially when he used to throw in the mid 90s. And he's NOT a crafty pitcher. His ERA says so.


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