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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Interesting thread. Ive learned that Pedro Alvarez is doomed to be a massive flop and Lewis Black isnt funny. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Interestingly enough, DK's PBC blog today talks about this, and DK points out that Alvarez seems happy to be here, does all the work at full speed, and that the PBC brass is happy with his effort.

No word on Lewis Black's jokes though, sorry.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:44 pm 
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I just wonder what Black will scream about now that Obama is President.

90% of his stuff was screaming about Bush and Company.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:44 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Interestingly enough, DK's PBC blog today talks about this, and DK points out that Alvarez seems happy to be here, does all the work at full speed, and that the PBC brass is happy with his effort.

No word on Lewis Black's jokes though, sorry.


ZM


LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Callis chat today re: Alvarez:

Quote:
Ryan (Pittsburgh): Jim are you worried at all about Pedro Alvarez's rumored conditioning problems? It just seems like its been one thing after another with this kid.

Jim Callis: I wouldn't say worried, but it is a red flag in that it was an issue in instructional league and shouldn't have been an issue the second time around. That said, he's going to be a bat-only guy in any case, albeit a very, very good one.

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:29 pm 
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And some more to grow on:

Quote:
Nick (Pitt): Does Alvarez's rep as a great teammate and worker make the weight thing a little less of a concern? Its one thing if his attitude was questioned, but since he has shown a great work ethic and competitive drive, dont you think that he can get his weight back to where it was?

Jim Callis: It does. I'm not too worried about it, though it's not what you'd want to see either.


Quote:
Bill (Bushkill, PA): At what level does Pedro Alvarez finish before the season is over??? Thanks Jim.

Jim Callis: Majors.

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
I just wonder what Black will scream about now that Obama is President.

90% of his stuff was screaming about Bush and Company.

You obviously never saw his stuff pre-2000. He hated Bill Clinton.

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:37 pm 
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You know, I have largely abstained from participating in this thread, but this is what it boils down to.

Weighing a kajillion pounds (estimated) has not stopped Prince Fielder from putting up an OPS over .900.

Being a jerk, a bad teammate, an @sshole, etc has not stopped many a player from putting up an OPS over .900.

And when Pedro puts up an OPS over .900, we are all going to wonder why we spent 10 pages debating the issue.

Furthermore, if people were as concerned about themselves coming off as an jerk as they are about Pedro being a jerk, this board would certainly be a lot different (and this thread would have only been a couple pages).


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:07 pm 
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With Pedro's status (top pick and high expectations), he's bound to be under the microscope until he knocks in 130 RBIs in the bigs or has to have his legs amputated. Whichever comes first.

It's apples and oranges, but it reminds me a little bit of John Elway's early days with the Denver Donkeys. Newspapers reported on every little thing he did, including the infamous "he had peas at lunch" story. Everytime he screwed up (which was often) or had an owie, it was another "sky is falling" story.

Obviously, I'm not saying Pedro will be the Bucs' Elway...nor that he's a bust... just that we should keep things in perspective and wait awhile.

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:30 pm 
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What's the "Peas at Lunch" story. I did a quick google search and nothing came up.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:40 pm 
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First things first, I frankly don't care if I come across to you or anyone else as a jerk. I've been a fan of this team for 24 years now and I don't have much patience for anyone who acts like they might not want to be a part of my Pirates.

Secondly, I do hope that Pedro is in the majors this year because we won't have him for that long before he goes home to New York. We should milk him for everything he's got before he bolts. I'm not pessimistic, I'm being realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:14 pm 
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If you think Alvarez is going to bolt to New York, you should hope he wouldn't make it to the majors this season as his peak seasons won't be for a few years and you don't want his clock to start ticking.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:24 pm 
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Nobody is bolting anywhere. Once Alvarez is ready to be a major leaguer, he will be promoted and be a Buc for up to 6 years, and if the Doumit example can be repeated, for up to 8 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:45 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
First things first, I frankly don't care if I come across to you or anyone else as a jerk. I've been a fan of this team for 24 years now and I don't have much patience for anyone who acts like they might not want to be a part of my Pirates.

Once again, you're attacking a strawman. The guy is merely not in the shape he should be. That says little to nothing about his desire to play for the Pirates. You may not care about looking like a jerk, but if you want to be taken seriously, then I suggest you stop erecting strawmen.

Jeremy wrote:
Secondly, I do hope that Pedro is in the majors this year because we won't have him for that long before he goes home to New York. We should milk him for everything he's got before he bolts. I'm not pessimistic, I'm being realistic.

We'll have him for at least 6 years if we so choose. That's a pretty long time, and it may be longer if we follow the trend of locking up players to long term deals like those signed by Nick Markakis and Evan Longoria (which may be tough to do, as Scott Boras, Alvarez's agent, does not recommend his clients to take such deals). I don't know how long you think "that long" is, but it does not appear to be a realistic estimate.

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:47 am 
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chetthespian wrote:
What's the "Peas at Lunch" story. I did a quick google search and nothing came up.

Pretty sure it was peas...

Anyways, the story is that when John Elway was a rookie in 1983's training camp, the Denver newspapers reported on EVERYTHING he did. Literally. One newspaper even had the exclusive "scoop" of what Elway had with his lunch in the cafeteria that day-- he had ordered peas with his roast beef! So every now and then, one of the older beat writers will use some form of "did he have peas with his lunch" to poke fun at media overkill.

In ensuing years, it was a joke that the reporters would stake out Elway's home at Halloween and report what type of candy he was passing out. Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler, Gus Frerotte and even Bubby Brister have had "peas at lunch" and "Halloween candy" jokes written about them over the years.

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:56 am 
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Willton wrote:
and it may be longer if we follow the trend of locking up players to long term deals like those signed by Nick Markakis and Evan Longoria



You actually did my work for me when you followed that statement by saying Boras is his agent.


Alvarez will be here the minimum number of years he has to be, and then he'll be gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:38 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
and it may be longer if we follow the trend of locking up players to long term deals like those signed by Nick Markakis and Evan Longoria



You actually did my work for me when you followed that statement by saying Boras is his agent.


Alvarez will be here the minimum number of years he has to be, and then he'll be gone.


Except you have just told us for the past 9 pages that he was never going to be any good because he is a fat punk who doesn't care. So, if he isn't any good, I can't imagine NY would want him, now would they?

You can't have the argument both ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:23 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
and it may be longer if we follow the trend of locking up players to long term deals like those signed by Nick Markakis and Evan Longoria



You actually did my work for me when you followed that statement by saying Boras is his agent.


Alvarez will be here the minimum number of years he has to be, and then he'll be gone.


What if the team is coming off a World Series victory or an NLCS victory and money is flowing and available to bring an added piece in to repeat? Do you still think the fat arrogant jerk who sucks will go to NY?

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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:13 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
and it may be longer if we follow the trend of locking up players to long term deals like those signed by Nick Markakis and Evan Longoria



You actually did my work for me when you followed that statement by saying Boras is his agent.


Alvarez will be here the minimum number of years he has to be, and then he'll be gone.


What if the team is coming off a World Series victory or an NLCS victory and money is flowing and available to bring an added piece in to repeat? Do you still think the fat arrogant jerk who sucks will go to NY?



Oh man....I needed a god laugh today Dan. Thanks for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Discouraging news about Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Then if you dont think that this team will be good in six years, why not do something else then waste your time or energy as a Pirate fan?

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