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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
your 1B does need to hit since there's no real value in the glove


Must respectfully disagree on the glove part. Some pick it better than others and how many base runners does that save you in a season.


Couldn't agree more about the value of a guy who can pick it at first base.
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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
your 1B does need to hit since there's no real value in the glove


Must respectfully disagree on the glove part. Some pick it better than others and how many base runners does that save you in a season.

I would love to see Morneau for 1 year at 5 mil and let him and Gaby do the job. Sorry Animal but can't see GI Jones doing much more at this point in his career..... 8-) 8-) 8-)


Most of the research on scooping and handling errant throws by 1st basemen shows very little variance. It isn't uncommon to find a rather good scooper that rates very poorly in most other defensive metrics.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:42 pm 
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mjdouble wrote:
Most of the research on scooping and handling errant throws by 1st basemen shows very little variance. It isn't uncommon to find a rather good scooper that rates very poorly in most other defensive metrics.


Get ready to now hear how defensive metrics are extremely flawed and/or useless. :D

Anyway, not to speak for SA, but I'm pretty sure he isn't saying that 1B defense is useless, just that it weighs very lowly on the bat vs. defense scale for that position. That large of a discrepancy isn't really true of any other position, except maybe something ballpark-specific as he points out with needing a LF with speed to cover ground at a park like PNC.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:25 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
mjdouble wrote:
Most of the research on scooping and handling errant throws by 1st basemen shows very little variance. It isn't uncommon to find a rather good scooper that rates very poorly in most other defensive metrics.


Get ready to now hear how defensive metrics are extremely flawed and/or useless. :D

Anyway, not to speak for SA, but I'm pretty sure he isn't saying that 1B defense is useless, just that it weighs very lowly on the bat vs. defense scale for that position. That large of a discrepancy isn't really true of any other position, except maybe something ballpark-specific as he points out with needing a LF with speed to cover ground at a park like PNC.


I don't disagree with that. There is a reason that 1B gets docked the biggest negative positional adjustment in WAR calculations.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:01 pm 
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I think Pedro would be a good 1st baseman. Recent history shows that the best defensive 1st baseman - Teixeira, Pujols for example - spent a decent amount of time at 3rd base before becoming very good defensive 1st baseman.

My theory is that the 3rd base experience makes the 1st baseman good at fielding bunts and handling the screaming line drives. Also, the 1st baseman who has moved over from 3rd will have excellent range at the position, and a plus-plus arm for the spot.

Finally, scooping throws can be learned. If Pedro were put at 1st base, his range, his experience handling bunts, his plus arm are already there.

Give him 3 weeks in spring to learn how to scoop, and he does a good job defensively.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:09 pm 
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I assume that this is what most of the SABR inclined folks are relying upon: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/first-basemen-scoops/

I leave it to you to decide whether the author's assumptions - which are key in reaching his conclusions - are reliable and/or reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:14 am 
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Sorry if this question has an obvious answer...

But I saw on the 'Payroll 2014' thread that Marlon Byrd is a free agent.

Does that mean we are definitely releasing him? Or does it just mean that his contract is due to expire at the end of the season?

Is he not in contention to be re-signed? And why not?

I'm guessing its because Marte offers a better long term prospect, and would be cheaper, but his offensive stats towards the end of the year were quite poor... weren't him and Walker 1 for like 38 or something?

With Byrd being such a journeyman, would be demand high wages? Could we not utilise him in an OF rotation and then use Marte as a pinch runner and/or Byrd as a pinch hitter, depending on who is in the starting lineup?

I dunno... I just feel like Byrd was quite a good addition this season, and seems a shame to see him go.

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:09 am 
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ryansd87 wrote:
Sorry if this question has an obvious answer...

But I saw on the 'Payroll 2014' thread that Marlon Byrd is a free agent.

Does that mean we are definitely releasing him? Or does it just mean that his contract is due to expire at the end of the season?

Is he not in contention to be re-signed? And why not?

I'm guessing its because Marte offers a better long term prospect, and would be cheaper, but his offensive stats towards the end of the year were quite poor... weren't him and Walker 1 for like 38 or something?

With Byrd being such a journeyman, would be demand high wages? Could we not utilise him in an OF rotation and then use Marte as a pinch runner and/or Byrd as a pinch hitter, depending on who is in the starting lineup?

I dunno... I just feel like Byrd was quite a good addition this season, and seems a shame to see him go.



Don't want to start this up again so I'd suggest looking at the "Go...Stay" thread a few threads down for the rationale. His contract is up, he'll be a FA.

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:11 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
Don't want to start this up again so I'd suggest looking at the "Go...Stay" thread a few threads down for the rationale. His contract is up, he'll be a FA.


Yeah, just saw that. Came back to move this reply into that thread, but saw you had already replied!

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:58 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Polanco hit a 3-run HR last night in his first game of the season in the Dominican Winter League. Also singled, walked, and threw out 2 runners at the plate.

He hit another home run tonight. The scouts saying June might not be too far off. This is about midway between AA and AAA competition.


4-4 with another HR last night, now hitting .500.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:11 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
your 1B does need to hit since there's no real value in the glove


Must respectfully disagree on the glove part. Some pick it better than others and how many base runners does that save you in a season.


Couldn't agree more about the value of a guy who can pick it at first base.
Sincerely,
Shawon Dunston

If defense at first is important, where are all of the all glove, no hit first basemen?

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:43 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Polanco hit a 3-run HR last night in his first game of the season in the Dominican Winter League. Also singled, walked, and threw out 2 runners at the plate.

He hit another home run tonight. The scouts saying June might not be too far off. This is about midway between AA and AAA competition.


4-4 with another HR last night, now hitting .500.


2-4, Grand Slam, 3 BB's in a 13 inning game last night.

He has an 11 game hit streak to open up his season and is sitting at .378 with the average.

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:23 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
If defense at first is important, where are all of the all glove, no hit first basemen?


Why isn't Ryan Doumit playing first base for the Pirates?

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:11 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Why isn't Ryan Doumit playing first base for the Pirates?


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:41 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
If defense at first is important, where are all of the all glove, no hit first basemen?


Why isn't Ryan Doumit playing first base for the Pirates?


He's been pretty blah since leaving. Jones has had better years both years (shocking, I know, considering this year).

I'm thinking Jones will see the same fate where he hits 30 years old and they just let him walk. Odds are the decline is coming so no use tying yourself up.

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:59 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
If defense at first is important, where are all of the all glove, no hit first basemen?


Why isn't Ryan Doumit playing first base for the Pirates?

There's a difference between bad defense and no defense, not to mention the fact that he repeated stated that he would only catch while he was here.

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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:22 am 
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Excuse me but if Polanco is as good as they say he is then he should be the Pirates center fielder. Cutch would move to left field, and Marte moves to right field.

It may very well be hurtful to Cutch's ego but he's got to realize that the Pirates need to do what's best for the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:42 am 
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Oh, the problems of having the best defensive outfield in the majors... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:54 am 
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I really like the Idea of moving the raging bull to first base if the pirates can acquire a replacement at third base. Johnny Peralta could be had at a reasonable price and would be a great fit there. He hit for above average power for a shortstop but has limited range. Good hands and a strong arm.


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 Post subject: Re: Polanco or Marte for LF?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:55 am 
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Rotten_Scoundrel wrote:
Excuse me but if Polanco is as good as they say he is then he should be the Pirates center fielder. Cutch would move to left field, and Marte moves to right field.

It may very well be hurtful to Cutch's ego but he's got to realize that the Pirates need to do what's best for the team.


I think the consensus is Marte is the better of the three defensively.


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