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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:26 pm 
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I weighed in on this at the end of the Cards-Dodgers thread because I missed the new thread on the Cards comments after last night's games. My thoughts from that thread:

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I know that there are some here that are rooting for the Cards, but their insufferable fans and their entitlement along with their condescending jackass broadcast team that I was forced to endure on Pirates' away games on the Extra Inning Package has really amped up my hatred for them. Then there is this from Deadspin today:

http://deadspin.com/cardinals-complain- ... 1445526942

Really? Wainwright getting his panties in a knot because Gonzalez celebrated too much after driving in a run? Really? The Dodgers hadn't scored in what, like 20 innings, so I don't think a little exuberance at finally knocking in a run was over the top. The Puig sin, in my opinion was flipping the bat and going into full celebration when the ball didn't even leave the yard, and I get that Puig's antics rub many in baseball the wrong way but who the F are the Cards to dictate how everyone should act? This from a team whose third-baseman ran out for a curtain call in the SECOND INNING of the Pirates game after hitting a HR making the game 2-0! What was that Freese's 3rd hit of the series? Curtain call?! Jeebus, gimme a break! But that is ok because if the Cards do it, it is class. If anyone else does it, it's "Mickey Mouse."

From that "Best Fans in Baseball" (TM) crap to now being the arbitors of "how to act in baseball 101", really, F-The Cards.


I understand not defending Puig's performance because, frankly, his act wears thin and is akin to my dislike of Phillips. But Wainwright's pissing and moaning about Gonzalez is ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Isn't this the same team that had guys curtain calling in like the 4th inning and then again when they were up by 5?

Seems to me that, after seeing their antics against the Reds a couple years ago, that they seem to have inherited the same sense of entitlement as their fans. They can do what they want but you damn well better not try to upstage them.

I really don't care about this BS, the unwritten rule thing is beyond stupid and I think guys should be able to do what they want, just think it's ridiculous the Cards are complaining when they have no issues with self-congratulation when they're on the receiving end.

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:23 am 
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The last thing that baseball needs is a bunch of NFL or NBA-like self aggrandizing players. I don't want to watch players do the Superman move after hitting a double or pitchers doing the Deion Sanders dance after striking out a batter. The showboating after making a tackle or warrior screams after dunking a basketball detract from those games - they don't add anything.

At least for me ...

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:56 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Isn't this the same team that had guys curtain calling in like the 4th inning and then again when they were up by 5?

Seems to me that, after seeing their antics against the Reds a couple years ago, that they seem to have inherited the same sense of entitlement as their fans. They can do what they want but you damn well better not try to upstage them.

I really don't care about this BS, the unwritten rule thing is beyond stupid and I think guys should be able to do what they want, just think it's ridiculous the Cards are complaining when they have no issues with self-congratulation when they're on the receiving end.


That's exactly my point.

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:11 pm 
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How about celebrating when the game is over and your team has won? Celebrating in the 2nd inning is a celebration of yourself.

It is not a huge deal, but I do get annoyed at celebrations where the outcome is clearly still in doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:06 pm 
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I just re-watched the video (its at about 40:20 for those with MLB.TV). Freese didn't watch his HR from home plate. He didn't take a long jog across the bases. He didn't taunt anyone. He wasn't talking smack. He slapped some hands of the guys on the field and celebrated with teammates in the dugout.

His "curtain call" was a quick 2 steps up the dugout and an immediate 2 steps back down. No wave of the cap, no prolonged acknowledgement of the entire crowd, no prolonged standing on the stairs, no pounding of the chest, no effort to try to pump up the crowd by gesturing, etc. If was over in 2 seconds. It was, in my opinion, a non-event. Nothing about it - at least to me - screamed "look at me, look at me, look at me."

I hated that HR. It felt like a dagger in my heart at the time. But I never thought that Freese was trying to rub it in or be a glory hound.

I can't name a player on the Cardinals' roster who strikes me as being a showboat. Everytime I watch Puig play or see highlights on ESPN, that's the first thing that comes to mind . . . he can't wait to draw attention to himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
It is not a huge deal, but I do get annoyed at celebrations where the outcome is clearly still in doubt.


The NFL and NBA must annoy you to hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:20 pm 
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The curtain call by Matt Carpenter early in Game 3 of last year's NLCS against the Giants was longer than Freese's . . . I don't remember any criticism of Carpenter at the time. Then again . . . I don't read Giants' message boards or San Fransisco newspapers.

Here's the video: http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=25 ... vtp_must_c

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Every time I come here, the title of this thread makes me wonder if we're talking politics in the Rotunda. Our politicians in Washington can't be serious, can they? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:55 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I just re-watched the video (its at about 40:20 for those with MLB.TV). Freese didn't watch his HR from home plate. He didn't take a long jog across the bases. He didn't taunt anyone. He wasn't talking smack. He slapped some hands of the guys on the field and celebrated with teammates in the dugout.

His "curtain call" was a quick 2 steps up the dugout and an immediate 2 steps back down. No wave of the cap, no prolonged acknowledgement of the entire crowd, no prolonged standing on the stairs, no pounding of the chest, no effort to try to pump up the crowd by gesturing, etc. If was over in 2 seconds. It was, in my opinion, a non-event. Nothing about it - at least to me - screamed "look at me, look at me, look at me."

I hated that HR. It felt like a dagger in my heart at the time. But I never thought that Freese was trying to rub it in or be a glory hound.

I can't name a player on the Cardinals' roster who strikes me as being a showboat. Everytime I watch Puig play or see highlights on ESPN, that's the first thing that comes to mind . . . he can't wait to draw attention to himself.


This.


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:06 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I can't name a player on the Cardinals' roster who strikes me as being a showboat. Everytime I watch Puig play or see highlights on ESPN, that's the first thing that comes to mind . . . he can't wait to draw attention to himself.


Deadspin did it for you!

http://deadspin.com/why-dont-the-st-louis-cardinals-respect-the-game-1445679050

Kind of posted this tongue in cheek, but my point was more with Wainwright's whining about Gonzalez' "celebration" at second base after his RBI double. That is what Wainwright was referring to as "Mickey Mouse", not Puig. That to me is ridiculous, especially considering the celebrating that the Cards have done in this series, as evidenced by the GIFs Deadspin put together. If Gonzalez was "over the top" according the the keepers of all things classy and pure in baseball (i.e., the Cards), then what were their celebrations?

I really don't have a problem with Beltran's comments about Puig. Not really a fan of Puig's act because his showboating has sometimes had a detrimental effect on his team.

Regarding Freese, I have never seen a curtain call that early in a deciding game. I would have expected much more from The Best Fans In Baseball (TM) and it really seemed like rubbing it in.


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Beat 'em Bucs wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
I can't name a player on the Cardinals' roster who strikes me as being a showboat. Everytime I watch Puig play or see highlights on ESPN, that's the first thing that comes to mind . . . he can't wait to draw attention to himself.


Deadspin did it for you!

http://deadspin.com/why-dont-the-st-louis-cardinals-respect-the-game-1445679050

Kind of posted this tongue in cheek, but my point was more with Wainwright's whining about Gonzalez' "celebration" at second base after his RBI double. That is what Wainwright was referring to as "Mickey Mouse", not Puig. That to me is ridiculous, especially considering the celebrating that the Cards have done in this series, as evidenced by the GIFs Deadspin put together. If Gonzalez was "over the top" according the the keepers of all things classy and pure in baseball (i.e., the Cards), then what were their celebrations?

I really don't have a problem with Beltran's comments about Puig. Not really a fan of Puig's act because his showboating has sometimes had a detrimental effect on his team.

Regarding Freese, I have never seen a curtain call that early in a deciding game. I would have expected much more from The Best Fans In Baseball (TM) and it really seemed like rubbing it in.


This

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:40 pm 
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I don't call any of what Deadspin posted to be showboating. Just as I don't call Jason Grilli's excitement showboating. I don't call McCutchen, Tabata and Marte jumping into one another after a victory showboating. I don't think Alvarez's pointing to the sky after HRs is showboating. And I don't think that the Zoltan Z is showboating. Russell Martin and Jason Grilli's excitement after getting the last out at home plate to clinch a playoff spot wasn't showboating.

And I'd have no problem with Andrew McCutchen saying that Puig's antics are not particularly desired among the established players.

Yasiel Puig's bat flip? Cam Newton's "Superman" move? LeBron James' standing under the basket thumping his chest and letting out a primal scream after dunking the ball? Aaron Rodgers' Discount Double Check move? That's not excitement, that's showboating. That is nothing more than "look at me, look at me, hey . . . is the camera on me?" Again . . that's my personal take.

Try as I might, I just can't divorce Puig's bat flip from his celebration at third base. All part of the same play. If it was an isolated incident, I may be a tad more forgiving but I've seen enough evidence of Puig being a moth to reasonably conclude that it isn't just the Cardinals who have an issue with his "flamboyance." If Puig had hit a ball into the gap, hustled out a triple, popped up from his slide and reacted excitedly - different story. Hell . . . Mattingly sat him down earlier this year because of his lackadaisical, showy approach to defense.

Did Beltran come off as "righteous" when describing Puig? Yep, he did. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut when asked his thoughts about Puig's antics. But no more so than Carlton Fisk yelling at Deion Sanders to "respect the game" and to "start running" when Deion stood at home plate and longingly admired a home run that he had hit.

ADD-ON . . . ok, I've now read the whole story where Wainwright called Gonzalez's actions "Mickey Mouse." I don't agree with that. Now I get what others are saying. I was purely focused on Beltran's comments about Puig . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:14 pm 
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All those posts for nothing. You ass. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:29 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
All those posts for nothing. You ass. :D


Sorry . . . I was "locked into" what I considered to be yet another example of Mike & Mike going after the sport of baseball and going to great lengths to rip the Cardinals for criticizing Puig's antics and focusing solely on his reaction at 3rd base and downplaying Puig's "Look At How Cool I Am" bat flip.

They continually mock baseball's "unwritten rules" but choose to ignore the "unwritten rules" that are on display every Sunday in the NFL. Like not passing the ball when you are way ahead of your opponent. Not going for it on 4th and short when you have a sizeable lead. Remember when Schiano had his defense blast into the offensive line when the game was over and the opponent was in the "victory formation?" All the criticism levied at Schiano? Why? Unwritten rules. Respect for opponents.

How about the NBA? Remember when Golden State was trying to set the 3 point goal record with a huge lead and the opposing coach started fouling intentionally? Why? Unwritten rules.

It exists in all sports yet, for some reason (just like how baseball is singled out for having a PED problem), baseball is the only sport that is criticized for its unwritten rules.

The ESPNization of sports drives me crazy. They want so badly to promote Puig and his antics that they will bend over backwards to excuse him and cast a pall over those who are criticizing him. If ESPN had its way, you'd see McCutchen dancing around the basepaths after a home run like Deion Sanders did after scoring a TD. You'd see Jason Grilli doing a Superman move after getting a strike out. You'd see Pedro Alvarez thumping his chest and screaming after hitting a double. And you'd see Neil Walker skipping backwards shaking his head at the pitcher after earning a walk.

Me? No thanks. Let that shit stay in the NBA and the NFL.

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:50 am 
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If the NFL were like the MLB, you'd never finish a game what with the other team complaining about being disrespected after every play and the benches clearing staredown matches that followed.

I get your point but I think that it is quite slippery-slope and I think baseball players for the most part act like 15 year old girls.

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:55 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
If the NFL were like the MLB, you'd never finish a game what with the other team complaining about being disrespected after every play and the benches clearing staredown matches that followed.

I get your point but I think that it is quite slippery-slope and I think baseball players for the most part act like 15 year old girls.


Oh, football players do this all the time... but then someone goes "hut one, hut two..."

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:25 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
If the NFL were like the MLB, you'd never finish a game what with the other team complaining about being disrespected after every play and the benches clearing staredown matches that followed.

I get your point but I think that it is quite slippery-slope and I think baseball players for the most part act like 15 year old girls.


Oh, football players do this all the time... but then someone goes "hut one, hut two..."

ZM

This.

Football players get to prove their masculinity every play. Baseball players, well, not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:21 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
The NFL and NBA must annoy you to hell.

I don't believe I can adequately state how annoying I find the touchdown celebrations to be.

1st quarter, touchdown makes the score 7-3 or some such thing, and the guy who scored is putting on a show that makes me think his feat was a combination of Mazeroski-9th-inning-plus-Bobby-Thompson-9th-inning-plus-Franco-Harris-8-seconds-to-play-plus-Michael-Jordan-beats-the-Cavaliers.

Jeez, it's the first freaking quarter, and you ran 4 yards for a touchdown. Grow up.

And some 7' guy going nuts for a "dunk"? Uhhh, that's actually worth LESS than a shot from 20' ... and it happens a thousand times per year ... and you're seven effing feet tall.


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 Post subject: Re: Are these guys serious?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
The NFL and NBA must annoy you to hell.

I don't believe I can adequately state how annoying I find the touchdown celebrations to be.

1st quarter, touchdown makes the score 7-3 or some such thing, and the guy who scored is putting on a show that makes me think his feat was a combination of Mazeroski-9th-inning-plus-Bobby-Thompson-9th-inning-plus-Franco-Harris-8-seconds-to-play-plus-Michael-Jordan-beats-the-Cavaliers.

Jeez, it's the first freaking quarter, and you ran 4 yards for a touchdown. Grow up.

And some 7' guy going nuts for a "dunk"? Uhhh, that's actually worth LESS than a shot from 20' ... and it happens a thousand times per year ... and you're seven effing feet tall.


My favorite is the trash talking safety who makes a decent hit downfield after the receiver has gained about 18 yards for a first down. Yeah . . . nice job. Pat yourself on the back.

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