Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:55 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 79 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Wonder if Lambo is a legit player. He can play 1B. His righty/lefty split at AAA wasn't bad hitting .250 with 6 HR in 58 AB's against LHP and .280 with 12 HR vs. RHP.

I don't think he was really given a full chance to show what he could do but he is an interesting player to keep in mind.



I agree. I think he looked ok at the plate for much of his SSS at bats.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
val wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
I REALLY like Byrd. I saw a postgame interview with him last night and he definitely wants to be a part of this team moving forward. He's a gamer.

Of course he's going to want to stay here. He's 36 years old. To date, the cumulative winning percentage of the teams he played for before coming here was .473. He hit a HR in his first game for us, and after 1250 games played, he homers in his first playoff AB in front of one the greatest crowds ever.

The question is: why wouldn't anyone not want him to stay. He gave us the second really good bat in the lineup we've been needing. Even at a figure substantially higher than the $700,000 we're paying him, he'll still most likely be a better deal than anyone else we can find.



All PEDs. That's it. Everything else about him is worth bringing back, but a 36-year old coming off a career year and a PED suspension could be a ticking bomb.

It will probably come down to what other teams offer. He may take a deal to come back cheapish, but if some stupid team throws multiple years and $5 mil per at him, I bet he'd take it.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Would Corey Hart be worth checking out? He had a solid 2012, spent this season rehabbing his knees, and could be the RH power bat at 1B we need. Plus he knows the NL, specifically our division.

You sign him, and Byrd-man back for RF and you added a lot of power for the full season. Tabata can be the 4th OF and Polanco wouldn't be rushed at all.



I don't know. If he were cheap, I'd say yes. But this is a guy who messed up one knee because he was favoring it while rehabbing the other...that is, he seems to be made of kindling at this point.

But he can hit when healthy, there's no doubt.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
TheShark wrote:
val wrote:
The question is: why wouldn't anyone not want him to stay.


I don't think you'll find anyone who simply doesn't want him to stay. You'll find people who would be cautious about doing so for the wrong price and/or contract length given that he's 36 and just posted a career year following a stint with PED use. If you can get him on a one-year deal I think you do it in a heartbeat and let Polanco take all the time he needs in AAA. But would that be enough for Byrd himself? Again coming off of that career year I don't think it's guaranteed that he skips the FA market in order to come back at a discounted one year rate. He has the value to ask for a lot more. Realistically it's probably going to take more money and a multi-year deal. I hope I'm wrong and they can keep him for one year.



I see I was late.

I don't care about PED use - I'd probably do the same if I were a pro athlete. I like the guy. It's just a red flag for a small market team that can't afford many screw-ups.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
The Rotten One wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Go: Justin Morneau, Marlon Byrd, Garrett Jones, Gaby Sanchez, John Buck
Stay: A.J. Burnett (the Pirates should slap the $14M qualifying offer on him), Jose Tabata (4th OF), Clint Barmes (back-up SS, 1 year, $1.5M)
Sign: Jose Dariel Abreu (4 years, $44M), Travis Hafner (1 year, $2M), David DeJesus (2 years, $8M)

Probable 2014 Opening Day Lineup:

1 -- Starling Marte, LF
2 -- David DeJesus, RF
3 -- Andrew McCutchen, CF
4 -- Pedro Alvarez, 3B
5 -- Jose Abreu, 1B
6 -- Neil Walker, 2B
7 -- Russell Martin, C
8 -- Jordy Mercer, SS
9 -- Gerrit Cole, P

Bench: Tony Sanchez (C), Jose Tabata (OF), Travis Hafner (1B), Clint Barmes (SS), Josh Harrison (UTIL)
Rotation: Gerrit Cole, Francisco Liriano, A.J. Burnett, Charlie Morton, Wandy Rodriguez/Jeff Locke
Bullpen: Stolmy Pimentel, Jeanmar Gomez, Vin Mazzaro, Justin Wilson, Tony Watson, Mark Melancon, Jason Grilli


Hafner and Dejesus? Seriously? Hafner hit 202 and Dejesus hit 250 with 8 home runs. how is that different than Gabby, Jones and Tabata ?



And basically all of Hafner's production was in April.



Also to Animal's suggestion of Adam LaRoche - didn't he fall back off quite a bit this past season?

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
J_C_Steel wrote:
If A.J. Burnett retires or leaves, you know who would make a decent reclamation project?

Josh Johnson

From Tim Williams:

http://www.piratesprospects.com/2013/10 ... oblem.html

A prime candidate could be Josh Johnson. He looks like the perfect bounce back player. His ERA was 6.20, but his xFIP was 3.58. His strikeouts actually went up to a career best 9.18 K/9, and his walks didn’t increase that much to a 3.32 BB/9. The problem was his home runs and went way up. That was the result of an 18.5% HR/FB ratio. He also had a .356 BABIP and a 63.3% strand rate.

Johnson got an average amount of ground balls (45%). He also throws a two-seam fastball, but only throws it 13.3% of the time, compared to 45.7% with his four seam fastball. He throws a slider 20.6% of the time. The Pirates have had success with pitchers like Johnson by getting them to rely on their two-seam fastball more often to generate more ground balls.

There is the injury factor to consider. Johnson recently had elbow surgery to remove bone spurs. It was a minor surgery, and there were no issues found with his elbow ligament. He will be throwing again in five weeks, and will probably be looking for a one year deal. Even if they sign Burnett, Johnson seems like the perfect gamble to take to get another potential top of the rotation guy. And if they don’t sign Burnett, Johnson would be a great alternative.


A reasonably priced 1- or 2-year deal for Johnson would give the Pirates a veteran pitcher with excellent stuff who could be the next Burnett/Liriano.



I don't know if I posted earlier in the year, but I completely agree with this. I was thinking that at some point earlier in the season when he was getting knocked around in that launching pad in Toronto.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
NSMaster56 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
If A.J. Burnett retires or leaves, you know who would make a decent reclamation project?

Josh Johnson

From Tim Williams:

...

A reasonably priced 1- or 2-year deal for Johnson would give the Pirates a veteran pitcher with excellent stuff who could be the next Burnett/Liriano.


Yes, that would seem like a usual NH move.

Tim Hudson, Dan Haren and Tim Lincecum might also fit the bill as 'reclamation projects', albeit less economically efficient ones.

It's too bad that Jeff Niemann has one arb year left and is playing for the 'arbitrage' Rays. He'd be a good 'buy low' candidate.

One last possible candidate might be Brett Anderson. The A's have a $1.5 M buyout option on him and he's been injury prone and/or ineffective since his rookie season.



Haren I don't want and Lincecum I think isn't buy-low enough yet.

Hudson would be nice but I think he wants to stay in ATL.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
ZelieMike wrote:
I'm not sure you need any of that, though JJ wanted to come into the "pitchers reclamation park" at a reasonable price, I would like it.

The key is Morton. I don't agree with J-C on him... now. Earlier in the year, yes. But, not now. Now, he is a pitcher with an effective 93-94 fastball with incredible sink, a 4-seamer that moves, and a curve that he has moved onto the inside corner of lefties to take away the edge the USED to have.

He is a top 3 pitcher right now, mimicking a prime time Halliday.

With that, you can take a long look at Kyle McPherson and Phil Irwin. Two guys on the cusp and expected to be ahead of Locke before injury. McPherson in particular is intriguing.

ZM



I'm also high on Morton.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
StarlingArcher wrote:
Dan Szymborski (ZiPS creator) has Byrd getting a 1 year/ $12M deal or 2 years/$22M.

No way he gets that from the Pirates. Also mentioned he didn't think the Pirates were likely to re-sign him, citing Polanco being ready and Byrd being an unlikely candidate to duplicate this season.

Cited his .353 BABIP and the fact he hit better than he did in even his prime years as indicators that he's due for a big regression. Has him at .268/.315/.425 if he stays in Pittsburgh, which is nowhere near as poor as his 2012 season but not really worth keeping around either.

Should be interesting to see who rolls the dice on him. Szymborski mentioned Baltimore. Might be a solid stopgap fit.



That would be insane. We were talking over the weekend about Byrd and decided he'll probably get overpaid by some team, but we came up with 1 year/$8 mil as the crazy overpay.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
Sorry for jumping in late and taking the board over, been traveling a lot recently.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:41 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6229
Are you guys aware of why he tested positive for PEDs? 8-) 8-)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Are you guys aware of why he tested positive for PEDs? 8-) 8-)



Yes, he took a drug that you use on the downside of a steroid cycle. I know it's the "bitch tits" drug, but steroids are not simple. You take them and then you have to take clomid (a female fertility drug) and others to avoid that and ball shrinkage and all kinds of fun stuff.

Same thing happened to Brian Cushing in the NFL.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10626
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
Same thing happened to Brian Cushing in the NFL.

And Manny Ramirez.

And David Ortiz back in the day, but of course we are supposed to ignore that, and continue getting weepy about those wonderful Sox players who broke the curse.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:49 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:46 am
Posts: 221
Byrd definitely loved playing here, and I liked the addition of him to the team. But you can't let winning get to your head. We cant tie up 5-10 million per year on a guy his age, who probably won't have another season like he had. I think we'll be fine chancing it with what we have, and then bringing Polanco up by the break. Plus Marte could break out a little more even, hit for more power, etc, so if you're getting great production out of CF/LF, you can manage RF being in a transitional state for a half season or so.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:31 am 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 2207
Location: Naples, FL
Bucfan wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
Same thing happened to Brian Cushing in the NFL.

And Manny Ramirez.

And David Ortiz back in the day, but of course we are supposed to ignore that, and continue getting weepy about those wonderful Sox players who broke the curse.



Yeah, some of these guys are teflon. It's weird.

_________________
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:54 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1405
Location: Eastern Shore
Bucfan wrote:
And Manny Ramirez.

And David Ortiz back in the day, but of course we are supposed to ignore that, and continue getting weepy about those wonderful Sox players who broke the curse.

What do you "we are supposed to"? No one is supposed to do anything.

Now, if you're arguing that 2004 wasn't one of the great achievements of the past half century, well then, I'll take a contrary position.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:42 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2433
Location: Tejas
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Dan Szymborski (ZiPS creator) has Byrd getting a 1 year/ $12M deal or 2 years/$22M.

No way he gets that from the Pirates. Also mentioned he didn't think the Pirates were likely to re-sign him, citing Polanco being ready and Byrd being an unlikely candidate to duplicate this season.

Cited his .353 BABIP and the fact he hit better than he did in even his prime years as indicators that he's due for a big regression. Has him at .268/.315/.425 if he stays in Pittsburgh, which is nowhere near as poor as his 2012 season but not really worth keeping around either.

Should be interesting to see who rolls the dice on him. Szymborski mentioned Baltimore. Might be a solid stopgap fit.



That would be insane. We were talking over the weekend about Byrd and decided he'll probably get overpaid by some team, but we came up with 1 year/$8 mil as the crazy overpay.


Don't forget the new TV deals set in for 2014. So from now on, you're pretty much talking about paying ~5M per WAR as opposed to ~3M when figuring a guy's approximate FMV. I think that's where the huge number comes from, as teams are expected to be able to add about 20M more in payroll. Since every team is getting it though it's not a huge advantage. Just gonna make you pay more for identical production and reset price points.

But regardless, you're still looking at a massive overpay for a guy who had a career year with inflated peripherals, an advanced age, and PED questions. 12m under the new revenue system is about 8M under the old rules so you guys were in the right ballpark. There's just some instant inflation that's about to occur.

I think they need to keep trying to advance. Signing Byrd would be treading water I think. Need to establish your core for the next 5 years as soon as possible. This team as it's currently constructed isn't sustainable.

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:02 am 
Offline
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:47 pm
Posts: 295
I think either 1B or RF will be addressed with a trade. Huntington has been kicking the tires on a big move for a while. Upton, Stanton, Trumbo, etc. Those moves are tough to make at the trade deadline. The pieces fit a little better in the offseason. I know a major move would still be a long shot. But I fully expect they'll acquire a cheaper option for the left handed side of the 1B platoon. Maybe Mitch Moreland, Lucas Duda, or someone of that ilk.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5235
Location: Pittsburgh
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Are you guys aware of why he tested positive for PEDs? 8-) 8-)

I'm aware of why he says he tested positive. I'm also aware that his advisor is Victor Conte.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 79 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits