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 Post subject: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:44 am 
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Somebody has to start this thread, so it may as well be me. :D

Looking ahead to 2014, who should stay and who should go?

Go
-----
1. Morneau: I was hoping the change of scenery would work for him like it did AJ. He seems like a great clubhouse guy and well liked by the other players, but that's just not enough....or is it?

2. Tabata: He might hold some trade value, maybe not. If we keep him as a 4th outfielder, then that's fine. But if we can get anything of value for him, let him go.

3. Jones: Sad to say that, because I've always liked him. But he is so inconsistent now. He even admitted that he gets in his own head and tinkers too much with his swing.

4. Sanchez: Gaby was worth taking a risk on, but somehow he's just lost that stroke he had in Florida.



Stay
--------

1. AJ: He had some struggles, but AJ can still be a dominating starter at times and has plenty left in my opinion.

2. Byrd: I'm a fan. He came up big in the playoffs. Another solid veteran presence and swings solid bat. A nice place holder until Polanco arrives.

3. Morneau: Should he be given a longer test run than the two months he's spent as a Bucco? Maybe. We still have no other options at first. His veteran presence did seem to have an impact on the clubhouse and maybe he finds his swing again in '14? Not sure. He is definitely our best option defensively.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:24 am 
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I'm a huge fan of the Byrd acquisition. He played 36 games for us and logged 42 hits (including 11 multi-hit games) and had 11 doubles and 4 home runs to go along with 22 RBIs. He's more than "just" a placeholder for Polanco.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:30 am 
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ok, I will bite.

go-
jones
morneau
barmes
tabata if we get anything of value for him

-I would love to see us get james loney, 2 year deal simialr to russell martin, he could hold down first base and we love defense and he has that in addition to a decent offensive eye.

-keep byrd, especially if Burnett does not sign

-maybe tailon will be our garrett cole, which will make A.J. Burnett expendible, unless he is willing to take a hefty pay cut.

marte
walker
cutch
byrd
alvarez
loney
martin
mercer

liriano, cole, morton, wandy, (karstens, cumpton, tailon, FA) am I missing someone

BP-the main core of grilli, melancon, wilson, watson and a few more..


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:59 am 
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VanSlick wrote:
Somebody has to start this thread, so it may as well be me. :D

Looking ahead to 2014, who should stay and who should go?

Go
-----
1. Morneau: I was hoping the change of scenery would work for him like it did AJ. He seems like a great clubhouse guy and well liked by the other players, but that's just not enough....or is it?

2. Tabata: He might hold some trade value, maybe not. If we keep him as a 4th outfielder, then that's fine. But if we can get anything of value for him, let him go.

3. Jones: Sad to say that, because I've always liked him. But he is so inconsistent now. He even admitted that he gets in his own head and tinkers too much with his swing.

4. Sanchez: Gaby was worth taking a risk on, but somehow he's just lost that stroke he had in Florida.



Stay
--------

1. AJ: He had some struggles, but AJ can still be a dominating starter at times and has plenty left in my opinion.

2. Byrd: I'm a fan. He came up big in the playoffs. Another solid veteran presence and swings solid bat. A nice place holder until Polanco arrives.

3. Morneau: Should he be given a longer test run than the two months he's spent as a Bucco? Maybe. We still have no other options at first. His veteran presence did seem to have an impact on the clubhouse and maybe he finds his swing again in '14? Not sure. He is definitely our best option defensively.


Sorry to disappoint you, but Tabata will probably be our starting RF next year. I really don't think in my gut that AJ is coming back after they pulled him like they did. They are not going to pony up as much money for as many years that Byrd will want. ANd Morneau did nothing... Why would you want him back?

Sanchez would and should be back, and he did very well as the RH part of platoon at 1b.

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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:02 am 
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Definitely in the "Go" pile would be Morneau, Jones, and Buck.

I was thinking Byrd would also be Go, but it is an interesting thought to maybe trade Tabata and keep Byrd. Certainly don't need both. When do we expect Polanco?

I would gladly take Burnett back but also think we can get along just fine without him.

Gaby Sanchez is fine as a platoon guy, but I think our biggest need is a lefthanded first baseman.

Also shortstop is a key decision. Is Mercer a #1 guy? If so, Barmes is ok as a backup. If not, who is our shortstop? A righthanded complement to Alvarez and Walker is certainly on the wish list. Maybe Mercer is that guy.

And what do we have with Lambo? Is he a key contributor or a spare part?

And what about closer? Grilli at 92 is not nearly the same as Grilli at 95. Maybe Wilson or Watson?


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:42 am 
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People tend to always forget about the extremely team-friendly big extension Tabata signed two years ago and the guaranteed money he's making for a few more years. Furthermore there's really no reason in trading even if Byrd is re-signed. They're simply not going to get an offer for him that will have a ton of value in return, and I don't see the point in getting rid of a 25-year old OF who can consistently post an OBP in the .345 range. Not to mention he's coming off his best year since his rookie season. Even if it's a bench piece, you keep that. His numbers may not seem that special, but they're not easy to replace, either. The biggest concern is health and whether or not he has completely turned into another Doumit who will routinely miss a couple of months a year due to injuries.

No interest in keeping Jones or Morneau.

I would be perfectly fine with keeping Gaby because the 1B situation is completely up in the air, and if you lose Jones/Morneau and just test the FA/trade waters, it's entirely possible that the best option you can get is a platoon guy. And there's nothing wrong with a platoon when the short-end guy (Gaby) actually performs excellently hitting LHP. They got above average production out of 1B the first few months until Jones completely fell off.

If Barmes was willing to come back at a discounted rate as the permanent back-up SS, I wouldn't really have any arguments. Probably better than assigning Harrison that role or going the FA utility IF route.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:44 am 
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Go: Justin Morneau, Marlon Byrd, Garrett Jones, Gaby Sanchez, John Buck
Stay: A.J. Burnett (the Pirates should slap the $14M qualifying offer on him), Jose Tabata (4th OF), Clint Barmes (back-up SS, 1 year, $1.5M)
Sign: Jose Dariel Abreu (4 years, $44M), Travis Hafner (1 year, $2M), David DeJesus (2 years, $8M)

Probable 2014 Opening Day Lineup:

1 -- Starling Marte, LF
2 -- David DeJesus, RF
3 -- Andrew McCutchen, CF
4 -- Pedro Alvarez, 3B
5 -- Jose Abreu, 1B
6 -- Neil Walker, 2B
7 -- Russell Martin, C
8 -- Jordy Mercer, SS
9 -- Gerrit Cole, P

Bench: Tony Sanchez (C), Jose Tabata (OF), Travis Hafner (1B), Clint Barmes (SS), Josh Harrison (UTIL)
Rotation: Gerrit Cole, Francisco Liriano, A.J. Burnett, Charlie Morton, Wandy Rodriguez/Jeff Locke
Bullpen: Stolmy Pimentel, Jeanmar Gomez, Vin Mazzaro, Justin Wilson, Tony Watson, Mark Melancon, Jason Grilli


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:54 am 
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Go:

Jones
Morneau
Buck

Burnett - Too many arms and AJ was one of the worst in baseball after it faced his 25th hitter. He's not a spring chicken, that's a bit disconcerting going forward. I'd prefer losing Wandy but that's not possible with the player option.

Snider- Crowded OF. Trying to trade him beats DFAing him when you call up Polanco.

Byrd - I liked him best of all the OF out there by far. But he's getting older and he'll be one more year removed from his PEDs. Unless he's willing to take a small, one-year deal I'd let him go. OF is a place we don't need a placeholder.

Stay:

Tabata - Only 25 next year and on a great deal. Doubt we could get fair value for him.

Barmes - He and mercer both aren't great against righties. Pretty poor for both actually. Defensively that's more than compensated for. I look to upgrade but given the free agents he isn't that unpalatable as a placeholder.

Sanchez - Again, I have no problem upgrading here but I don't think you just let a guy walk who had the season he had against lefties. He was stellar. Will likely never be a HR guy as a lefty platoon guy at PNC, but there are very few righties who could be a HR threat with that LF expanse.

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Last edited by StarlingArcher on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:58 am 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Will likely never be a HR guy as a lefty platoon guy at PNC, but there are very few righties who could be a HR threat with that LF expanse.


You know who would be? A guy with 80 raw power. A guy like Jose Dariel Abreu.

Just sayin'.

As for A.J., you agree that the Pirates should at least sign him to a one-year qualifying offer so they can get draft pick compensation if he decides to sign somewhere else, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:59 am 
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I like the idea of signing a guy like Travis Hafner as a lefty power threat, pinch hitter, and spot starter at 1B. I don't think he'd be too expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:02 am 
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There's no way AJ turns down 14 M, I don't think. Fair value isn't more than 9M for him.

Still going with Badler on Abreu. There's a big split on him so really have no opinion either way. Just think the Pirates need to be 100% certain before they make an offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:03 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
Tabata and keep Byrd. Certainly don't need both. When do we expect Polanco?


Wouldn't be so quick to say they "certainly don't need both". For starters there are theoretically 0 back-up OF right now with Snider and Jones walking. If you're going to sign Byrd at age 36 you better have a contingency plan in place, and you're not likely to fetch one from the FA market that gives you much more valuable than Tabata who has proven to be consistently post a .340+ OBP and still young enough to have upside (this year, for example, his best since his rookie season). Plus he's already locked up with the years of control. Another thing is the bench configuration. It will look completely different next year with the likely losses of Jones/Morneau/Barmes and potentially Byrd/Gaby. So Tabata will likely at the very least be the second or third best option off the bench even barring potential off-season acquisitions.

As for Polanco's ETA, middle of next year at the earliest, September call-up at the latest.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:03 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Sign: Jose Dariel Abreu (4 years, $44M), Travis Hafner (1 year, $2M), David DeJesus (2 years, $8M)


Travis Hafner?! Does Hafner still own a glove?

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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:04 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Sign: Jose Dariel Abreu (4 years, $44M), Travis Hafner (1 year, $2M), David DeJesus (2 years, $8M)


Travis Hafner?! Does Hafner still own a glove?


He may not. But he still owns a bat.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:38 am 
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Wonder if Byrd could transition to 1B.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:42 am 
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I guess I value left handed hitters more than most. Which is why I don't want both Byrd and Tabata. And yes Tabata has a team friendly deal, but that's why he might have some trade value. But it's not that team friendly if he's a 4th outfileder, which I think he is.

If we sign a good lefty for first, I'd be fine with Tabata/Lambo in right until Polanco arrives.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:44 am 
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Not much talk about Snyder. I don't value him at all. I think he needs to go back to AAA and prove that he can hit for power.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Not much talk about Snyder. I don't value him at all. I think he needs to go back to AAA and prove that he can hit for power.


He's out of options and you'd probably lose him sending him down. Not that I'd have a problem letting him go.

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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Wonder if Byrd could transition to 1B.


Interesting thought.

I REALLY like Byrd. I saw a postgame interview with him last night and he definitely wants to be a part of this team moving forward. He's a gamer.


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 Post subject: Re: Go....Stay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Way too many options eight now and they are somewhat interconnected. try to remember that we didn't become a top tier money team this year so the cost factor will play a part in decisions. While I'm sure our salary budget can increase, it is not without severe limits.
With that in mind, A.J. must be willing to take a huge cut to return. I don't see that happening so # one he'll be gone and need replaced.
Wandy is a big question mark as well. Can he be fine and will Locke return to form after resting his arm?
Morton, Luriano, Cole for sure and then who?? Tallion by mid season probably. So, SP might be a problem. (Luriano will surely cost much more)
I'd keep Wilson, Watson, Melanco, and Grilli at the back end of the pen. Need Neal to do his magic again to fill out the rest.

More later

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