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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:31 pm 
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IMOKRU wrote:
With Wacha, Kelley and Miller, seems the Cards are set for the future in pitching. Don't know how old Wainright is, but nice looking staff.


You are forgetting 3. They are in their bull pen right now, but could switch to the rotation later. They would be Seigrist, Martinez, and Rosenthal. All very young, and all throw 96-100 mph. We have one Cole right now. They have 6. Incredible system...


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Why funny? Not sure of your implication? Craig played more 3b in the minors than anything.

Animal, I thought you were joking.

Seriously, Matt Adams at 3rd base? The dude can BARELY move enough to play 1st.

And you want to know why the Cardinals had Craig at 1st base before the injury? Because he cannot play anywhere else without killing their defense. He is a horrible OF'er.

His UZR as an outfielder the last 3 seasons (2011 through 2013) has gone from 1.6 to -1.3 to -2.7.

His UZR for 150 games in the OF has gone from 6.5 in 2011, to -8.6 to -10.8.

He is adequate at 1st base with a 0.3 rating. The idea that he could play 3rd is fantasy.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... tion=1B/OF

As to his minor league experience at 3rd base, he last played there in 2008.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... llen-Craig

So you understand my mirth, I trust.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:58 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
We have one Cole right now. They have 6. Incredible system...

Truth, but the Pirates also have Taillon, and Glasnow, and Kingham, and Pimentel.

Add in Cole and that is 5 really, really hard throwers.

Finally, Siegrist deals at 97 from the pen, and Rosenthal at 99, and Martinez at 99.

Justin Wilson hit 100 mph 5 times this year. He cannot throw 100 mph as a starter. Yes, the Cardinal dudes deal, but if they are turned into starters, they will be dealing at 94-96 mph ...

Less velocity than Cole, less than Taillon from most reports, about the same as Kingham, less than Glasnow, not much different than Pimentel.

Both teams have a plethora of young power arms.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Animal wrote:
Why funny? Not sure of your implication? Craig played more 3b in the minors than anything.

Animal, I thought you were joking.

Seriously, Matt Adams at 3rd base? The dude can BARELY move enough to play 1st.

And you want to know why the Cardinals had Craig at 1st base before the injury? Because he cannot play anywhere else without killing their defense. He is a horrible OF'er.

His UZR as an outfielder the last 3 seasons (2011 through 2013) has gone from 1.6 to -1.3 to -2.7.

His UZR for 150 games in the OF has gone from 6.5 in 2011, to -8.6 to -10.8.

He is adequate at 1st base with a 0.3 rating. The idea that he could play 3rd is fantasy.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... tion=1B/OF

As to his minor league experience at 3rd base, he last played there in 2008.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... llen-Craig

So you understand my mirth, I trust.


I understand where you are coming from Bucfan, but you have Adams and a healthy Craig and they BOTH have to play. You find a way. Of course, Adams could never play anywhere else...that was just stupid of me....but you would give up a little defensively to have both of their bats in the lineup, wouldn't you?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Difference being, 6 of theirs are in the bigs right now, only a couple of ours are. How hard did Wilson throw in his appearance the other day? His velocity has been down.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:05 pm 
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The Bucs have built a really nice staff, some coming up through our system and a few acquired on the cheap.

SL is just scary. They have a young, hard throwing staff from top to bottom, mostly draft picks coming up through their system. It's going to make for a fun next few years.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Animal wrote:
I understand where you are coming from Bucfan, but you have Adams and a healthy Craig and they BOTH have to play. You find a way.

I found a way ... move the Cardinals to the AL West and move the Astros back to the NL Central.

Done and done!! :D

Animal wrote:
Of course, Adams could never play anywhere else...that was just stupid of me....but you would give up a little defensively to have both of their bats in the lineup, wouldn't you?

I don't know. I used to think so, but I am now a huge believer in the value of defense.

The Pirates have one superstar hitter (McCutchen), some good hitters (Walker, Marte, Pedro, Byrd, Morneau*) and have had problems scoring runs.

And they won 94 games, and are one of the 8 teams still in the hunt.

Why? Pitching and defense, and just enough hitting.

* :D


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:53 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Seriously, Matt Adams at 3rd base? The dude can BARELY move enough to play 1st.



We have a pretty good record in elimination games against teams with slow, lumbering 1Bmen. Right?


Right?



Right?


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:33 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Seriously, Matt Adams at 3rd base? The dude can BARELY move enough to play 1st.



We have a pretty good record in elimination games against teams with slow, lumbering 1Bmen. Right?


Right?

Man, if they win on a hit from a journeyman PH, and a slide from Adams, beating a throw from Marte, I am hunting you down!



Right?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:06 pm 
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BBF wrote:
We have a pretty good record in elimination games against teams with slow, lumbering 1Bmen. Right?

Right?


Right?

Not funny.

Not ... funny ... at ... all.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:42 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Difference being, 6 of theirs are in the bigs right now, only a couple of ours are.


... and yet they won only 3 more games than the Pirates this year. So I'm not really seeing how saying that the Cardinals were only marginally better than the Pirates this year with some of their big arms already graduated while only one of the Pirates has makes them superior to the Pirates going forward.

Furthermore suggesting that someone like Siegrist could move to the rotation is probably unrealistic. He is an extremely effective LOOGY who averaged around 60 IP a year in the minors.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, both have a solid nucleus and top 5 farm systems. But if anything comparing the systems regarding the immediate future is basically a wash unless you simply think that outside of Taillon, the others won't actually reach the majors.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Pirates need to add the "pixie dust" factor to their system. As in " sprinkle some pixie dust on a AA kid and, walaa, here is your new 1b".

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:27 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Pirates need to add the "pixie dust" factor to their system. As in " sprinkle some pixie dust on a AA kid and, walaa, here is your new 1b".

ZM


I thought the Pirates did the pixie dust thing back in the 80's. Even the Pirate Parrot got involved.


Maybe we're talking about different types of pixie dust...


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:40 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Pirates need to add the "pixie dust" factor to their system. As in " sprinkle some pixie dust on a AA kid and, walaa, here is your new 1b".


Not all that unrealistic to say that this is Alex Dickerson.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:27 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Nah, they'll just sprinkle their pixie dust on some young kid from the Dominican and walaaa... new 3b.

ZM

ZM, the word is "voilà", not "walaa" (which isn't a word at all). It's French for "behold".

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Willton wrote:
ZM, the word is "voilà", not "walaa" (which isn't a word at all). It's French for "behold".

And vwaala ... there we have the tidbit of the day.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:11 pm 
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We're counting on Cole pitching a great game. I believe he will. Can the Pirate hitters lay off swinging at pitches outside the strike zone and hitting pitches in the strike zone for hits? That's the big question for me.

Let's go Bucco bats!!! Let's go Pirate offense!!!!

Beat this Cardinal team!! You guys have proven you CAN do it.

Do it one more time!!!!

GO BUCS!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Nah, they'll just sprinkle their pixie dust on some young kid from the Dominican and walaaa... new 3b.

ZM

ZM, the word is "voilà", not "walaa" (which isn't a word at all). It's French for "behold".



I'm from Pittsbugh. Want to guess how to pronounce "Versailles"?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Pitching
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:47 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Nah, they'll just sprinkle their pixie dust on some young kid from the Dominican and walaaa... new 3b.

ZM

ZM, the word is "voilà", not "walaa" (which isn't a word at all). It's French for "behold".



I'm from Pittsbugh. Want to guess how to pronounce "Versailles"?

ZM


or Duquesne?

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