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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Animal wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
Animal, you forget that Tabata had a terrible at bat in game 4.

In the playoffs, you have to put the most talented players you have on the field. Marte is more talented than Tabata and gives us the best chance to win. Suppose there is a play at the plate with the throw coming from left. Who do you want making that throw, Tabata or Marte? He also has better base stealing speed than Tabata.

Even if he is slumping, you have to put your most talented players on the field in a playoff game.


You're right about the terrible at bat for Tabata in game 4 Bucfan.
How many terrible at bats has Marte had in the series? A lot more than 4.

...and I have also seen some shoddy defensive play from Marte in this series.


Tabata has been a big disappointment over the last few years, so why stick him out there in the most important game in 21 years?

That makes no sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Because the guy was hitting and getting on base at well over .300 before Marte came back.

Because Tabata is hitting something like .385 against Wainwright for his career.

Because Tabata can hit a curveball. Marte is not right now.

Those would be the reasons to consider.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:41 pm 
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The easy no-brainer strategy would be to leave Marte in. The riskier move would be to insert Tabata. It might pay dividends, it may not. But championships are usually won when these kind of risks are made, and, of course, they work out.

Hurdle doesn't seem to be the kind of manager to make these kinds of moves. But then again, he is going with Cole...


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:51 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Because the guy was hitting and getting on base at well over .300 before Marte came back.

Because Tabata is hitting something like .385 against Wainwright for his career.

Because Tabata can hit a curveball. Marte is not right now.

Those would be the reasons to consider.

ZM


- BEFORE the playoffs.

- I'll give you that one.

- Tabata can't hit a curve or anything else consistently. 3 years has proven that.

Tabata can't catch a cold and I don't want his glove out there. It's a liability.

This board has complained about the guy for years, but now he's a saviour? This is that "back up QB" thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:15 pm 
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I've not been one making those arguments, and no one is calling him a savior.

His defense is fine, if not pale in comparison to Marte.

Again, his numbers career wise and in the short time before Marte's return, dwarf Marte's in avg, and OBP and OPS.

In short, Tabata likes to hit in St. Louis and against Wainwright, and has always done so.

This is not "backup QB" mentality. Its the numbers.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:19 pm 
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If Tabata pinch hits and does something big, I'll eat my crow.

But I stand by my comments. Tabata is a 4th outfielder who is barely above Doumit in outfield prowess.

Pinch runner or pinch hitter? Sure

Starter? No way.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:43 pm 
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VanSlick wrote:
Animal wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
Animal, you forget that Tabata had a terrible at bat in game 4.

In the playoffs, you have to put the most talented players you have on the field. Marte is more talented than Tabata and gives us the best chance to win. Suppose there is a play at the plate with the throw coming from left. Who do you want making that throw, Tabata or Marte? He also has better base stealing speed than Tabata.

Even if he is slumping, you have to put your most talented players on the field in a playoff game.


You're right about the terrible at bat for Tabata in game 4 Bucfan.
How many terrible at bats has Marte had in the series? A lot more than 4.

...and I have also seen some shoddy defensive play from Marte in this series.


Tabata has been a big disappointment over the last few years, so why stick him out there in the most important game in 21 years?

That makes no sense.


You make no sense. So why is Morneau playing, when he has been in steady decline for 5 years.

Why are we going with the Hot Cole and not playing AJ?

The only stuff that matters is what is going on NOW...not the past 3 years. Marte had a nice year, has a great future...but for me, tonight, against Wainwright, in this venue, I'd go with Tabata. (who actually has had a better couple months than Marte).

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:44 pm 
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val wrote:
The easy no-brainer strategy would be to leave Marte in. The riskier move would be to insert Tabata. It might pay dividends, it may not. But championships are usually won when these kind of risks are made, and, of course, they work out.

Hurdle doesn't seem to be the kind of manager to make these kinds of moves. But then again, he is going with Cole...


You are absolutely right. It's the exact same thing with Cole vs AJ. I guess the bottom line is that Hurdle is playing who he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Hard not to back him on that....but Marte really has not done much since even before his injury!

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:49 pm 
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I'd like to have the lead-off man actually get on base, but I would also like the comfort of knowing my guy can make a lot plays in LF and will keep baserunners more honest with his arm. Tough call, but I think I keep the defensively talented guy out there, putting the bat on the bench in case it's needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:08 pm 
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OK I need to know....

I have ALWAYS heard his name pronounced TAAH-BAAH-TUH but I have been hearing people say TAB-UH-TUH - which is correct?

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Ta-ba-tah. For some reason this guy likes to draw his name out. Reminds me of the Jeff Dunham/ Peanut Santa Anna bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:01 am 
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So......I hate to say I told you so, but......

Tabata swung at a ball a foot outside and grounded out.... AND showed that terrible route running to a fly ball like I mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, Marte made a gold glove catch.

Marte didn't hit his weight, but his glove made a difference tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:48 am 
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VanSlick wrote:
So......I hate to say I told you so, but......

Tabata swung at a ball a foot outside and grounded out.... AND showed that terrible route running to a fly ball like I mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, Marte made a gold glove catch.

Marte didn't hit his weight, but his glove made a difference tonight.


YOu told me so???? LOL

His glove made a difference? Did it outweigh his 0-fer with two DOUBLE PLAYS. Yes, he made a very good catch on a ball when Tabata did not get to a similar one. Guess we'll blame this loss on Tabata then!

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:18 am 
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Animal wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
So......I hate to say I told you so, but......

Tabata swung at a ball a foot outside and grounded out.... AND showed that terrible route running to a fly ball like I mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, Marte made a gold glove catch.

Marte didn't hit his weight, but his glove made a difference tonight.


YOu told me so???? LOL

His glove made a difference? Did it outweigh his 0-fer with two DOUBLE PLAYS. Yes, he made a very good catch on a ball when Tabata did not get to a similar one. Guess we'll blame this loss on Tabata then!


Nobody said anything about blaming the loss. But Tabata's brief time in the game showed exactly what I was talking about yesterday. He looked like Lonnie Smith charging that fly ball and it fell in. Marte makes that catch relatively easy with his speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:43 pm 
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VanSlick wrote:
Animal wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
So......I hate to say I told you so, but......

Tabata swung at a ball a foot outside and grounded out.... AND showed that terrible route running to a fly ball like I mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, Marte made a gold glove catch.

Marte didn't hit his weight, but his glove made a difference tonight.


YOu told me so???? LOL

His glove made a difference? Did it outweigh his 0-fer with two DOUBLE PLAYS. Yes, he made a very good catch on a ball when Tabata did not get to a similar one. Guess we'll blame this loss on Tabata then!


Nobody said anything about blaming the loss. But Tabata's brief time in the game showed exactly what I was talking about yesterday. He looked like Lonnie Smith charging that fly ball and it fell in. Marte makes that catch relatively easy with his speed.


No doubt that Marte probably makes that catch. So I guess one catch, preventing a single, is worth more than being totally clueless at the plate, hitting into TWO double plays, swinging at anything??

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:05 pm 
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VanSlick wrote:
- BEFORE the playoffs.


And how is that a criticism, exactly? He never started a playoff game and was regulated to a couple PH opportunities. He posted a .848 OPS over the last two months of the season and was better than Marte when Marte came off the DL. But you're saying it doesn't matter because it was before the playoffs when he never started in the playoffs. It's not exactly uncommon for a player to go 0-fer when they get a couple PH opportunities over a couple of days span. Furthermore it's kind of pointless to fault a player like Tabata and his 4 PHs when you had regulars combine to go 1-38 (Marte and Walker) or hit .158 (Martin). Feel free to say one good defensive play made up for Marte's play, I'm fairly confident Tabata at the plate over the course of 5 games would have made up for it.

Tabata had a career year this year and posted an OPS+ of 119. He ended up being better than many of the trade deadline OF targets many were calling for like Rios and DeJesus. It's fine if you want to just label him a 4th OF, but it's inaccurate to lump this season in with the last two like you are doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:43 pm 
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I wouldn't call it a "career" year though. I think he was 1) healthy and 2) maturing into the player he can be. Not sure if he will be a top 3 with the Bucs as better options are on the way, but his contract sure looks like a nice piece to have.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Animal wrote:
I guess the bottom line is that Hurdle is playing who he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Hard not to back him on that....


Unless it's Justin Morneau

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:56 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Animal wrote:
I guess the bottom line is that Hurdle is playing who he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Hard not to back him on that....


Unless it's Justin Morneau


I don't understand your point?

I said that I personally believed they'd have been better off going with Tabata, Mercer, and Jones or Sanchez?

What's your point?

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 Post subject: Re: Game Time (good news)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:06 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I wouldn't call it a "career" year though.


Just to be clear all I mean by "career year" is his best season thus far, not what I expect in the future. It's either this one or his rookie year. I went with this year because he posted his career best OPS, SLG, by far his best OPS+, and cut down on his K rate considerably. Also for hitting his career best HR total despite getting less ABs than any previous year. I'm with you on his overall outlook, and obviously it sucks that he no longer has the other tools of speed/SB capabilities and plus defense. But this year was a significant step forward to me after the past two years.


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