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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:47 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Guys I'm not asking them to go out and break the bank here. I'm just asking that we go out and get an outfielder so we don't have to trot Nyjer Morgan everyday until McCutchen's ready, and sign a pitcher that is at least better than Duke/Ohlendorf/Karstens/McCutchen.


You keep saying that, but you wont tell us who these players might be.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Bottom line is that no one is happy. We're going to get beat up again this year.

The only hope is that by the following year we can begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel and it hopefully won't be an oncoming train.

No way around this deal and we all knew it last season, didn't we?

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:57 pm 
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Fine. Why don't we inquire what exactly the asking price in a trade is for Swisher, or if we could get Adam Dunn for around what the Rays got Pat Burrell for, maybe a little more, and maybe a Jon Garland, then I wouldn't think we'd be risking the future for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:06 pm 
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Actually, the Nationals have been linked to Swisher/Nady Dunn and Hudson. Between their agressiveness this offseason, the young talent they do have like Zimmerman, Dukes and Milledge and the fact they're a lock to take Strasburg, I'm pretty envious of the way the ownership in Washington runs that team.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:08 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Fine. Why don't we inquire what exactly the asking price in a trade is for Swisher, or if we could get Adam Dunn for around what the Rays got Pat Burrell for, maybe a little more, and maybe a Jon Garland, then I wouldn't think we'd be risking the future for them.


Good. 1 at a time:

Swisher stinks. Showed some promise a few years ago but has been regressing ever since. If the rumors are true, the Yanks have spoken to alot of potential trade partners and want a top prospect. Is Swisher worth one of our few real prospects. I say no.

Second, the Rays got Burrell at a discount because theyre a contender. He doesnt come to Pittsburgh for that money, nor will Dunn, who might well cost more given the 5 straight 40 HR seasons. Bottom line, if youre Adam Dunn, would you come to Pittsburgh at a discount or even the going rate if you have other teams interested? I say no.

Third, I think you can say the same about Garland. Hes just a journeyman, but alot of teams need pitching and as Spring Training approaches he'll be getting calls. One of those teams may get a discount, so maybe if we overpaid we could land him. So heres my question; do you overpay for a guy like Garland? Why? Whats he going to do for our 2009? Let us win a few more games and then be gone long before we're contenders? What have you acomplished that way? Why would that make you feel better?


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:19 pm 
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The pirates are a major league baseball team...Just becuase they arent looking good this year doesnt mean they cant comepete with a few decent free agent signings.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
The pirates are a major league baseball team...Just becuase they arent looking good this year doesnt mean they cant comepete with a few decent free agent signings.


Uh huh. And how do you bring them here? At gunpoint?


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
omgardd wrote:
Fine. Why don't we inquire what exactly the asking price in a trade is for Swisher, or if we could get Adam Dunn for around what the Rays got Pat Burrell for, maybe a little more, and maybe a Jon Garland, then I wouldn't think we'd be risking the future for them.


Good. 1 at a time:

Swisher stinks. Showed some promise a few years ago but has been regressing ever since. If the rumors are true, the Yanks have spoken to alot of potential trade partners and want a top prospect. Is Swisher worth one of our few real prospects. I say no.

Second, the Rays got Burrell at a discount because theyre a contender. He doesnt come to Pittsburgh for that money, nor will Dunn, who might well cost more given the 5 straight 40 HR seasons. Bottom line, if youre Adam Dunn, would you come to Pittsburgh at a discount or even the going rate if you have other teams interested? I say no.

Third, I think you can say the same about Garland. Hes just a journeyman, but alot of teams need pitching and as Spring Training approaches he'll be getting calls. One of those teams may get a discount, so maybe if we overpaid we could land him. So heres my question; do you overpay for a guy like Garland? Why? Whats he going to do for our 2009? Let us win a few more games and then be gone long before we're contenders? What have you acomplished that way? Why would that make you feel better?


Are any of these players going to mortgage our future? No. We're not going to throw away 17+ to bring in Manny. Are any of these players going to block any of our top prospects? Well, since Andrew McCutchen, *ahem* apparently isn't ready and Tabata's at least two years away, and we have no minor league pitching even close. So what does it hurt? It gives the fan who has never heard of Jose Tabata and Bryan Morris a more of reason to go to the games without sacrificing much if anything for the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:43 pm 
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First, trading a prospect for Swisher does to some degree mortgage our future, yes.

Second, you keep missing my point regarding guys like Dunn or Garland. Since theyre good enough for you to want them, we can assume that other teams will at some point go after a 40 HR guy or the solid SP. Given that, why would they choose us?


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:58 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Guys I'm not asking them to go out and break the bank here. I'm just asking that we go out and get an outfielder so we don't have to trot Nyjer Morgan everyday until McCutchen's ready, and sign a pitcher that is at least better than Duke/Ohlendorf/Karstens/McCutchen.

Reread my post, I'm not advocating a Littlefield type cosmetic signing.

But that is exactly what you are advocating. You're asking for a player that "gives the fan who has never heard of Jose Tabata and Bryan Morris a [sic] more of [sic] reason to go to the games." That is, by definition, a cosmetic fix. All you want is an offseason move that gives the appearance of trying to win. Such a concern has no bearing as to whether such a signing would actually benefit the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:02 pm 
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They need to at least pretend they care about winning.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
No true. He was mostly on target, except for the Matt Morris deal. Everyone, and I mean everyone, recognized that as a terrible mistake, the day it was made.


Abso-freaking-lutely.

And it was done right after the Pirates passed on Wieters, where Pirate fans said, "NOOOOO!!" to the Moskos pick.

Pirate fans would have done a better job for the Pirates in July of 2007 than did Littlefield.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
They need to at least pretend they care about winning.

The fact that they are not making such cosmetic signings means that they do care about winning.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
They need to at least pretend they care about winning.


What virtue is there in pretending to care about winning? Weve had enough charades around here over the years.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:04 am 
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Its just a figure of speech there is no pretending to win. If you go out and get some quality players then you care about winnning. I am amazed how everyone on this board is so quick to praise every move the Pirates make! They have gotten no one except lose their 2 best players last midseason. They have gotten nothing to replace them. Primarily because the team is too cheap to care and rather save the million for personal profit. You can keep being sastisfied and happy with bobbleheads and promises for the future. I want a winning team now. And they have not even attempted to put a winning team on the field. Many people who claim to be fans are saying their team has NO SHOT to win this year. I still think they would have a shot to win if they would sign a couple decent players.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:41 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Its just a figure of speech there is no pretending to win. If you go out and get some quality players then you care about winnning. I am amazed how everyone on this board is so quick to praise every move the Pirates make! They have gotten no one except lose their 2 best players last midseason. They have gotten nothing to replace them. Primarily because the team is too cheap to care and rather save the million for personal profit. You can keep being sastisfied and happy with bobbleheads and promises for the future. I want a winning team now. And they have not even attempted to put a winning team on the field. Many people who claim to be fans are saying their team has NO SHOT to win this year. I still think they would have a shot to win if they would sign a couple decent players.


I am glad our front office does not agree with you. Have you learned nothing by watching teams like the Marlins and Rays over the years? We have to do it they way they did...end of story. We are not the Yankees (can't buy a team) and a few players will not make us contenders magically. It is fans like you folks that made people like Littlefield think they can "win now" instead of having a solid long term plan (or any plan at all in his case). The Burnitz's of the world will not fix what ails us.

Edit: Wilton's post earlier in this thread summed up everything you need to know. It will not be easy to rebuild, but in the end, it must be done...whether some fans like it or not.


Last edited by urbanexplorer on Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:54 am 
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We have been trying to be them for 15 years. They dont totally give up for years they still sign people...They just keep good talent in their system and make SMART TRADES not like trading the face of the organization and team best player for 4 mediocre prospects.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:58 am 
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Ryann wrote:
We have been trying to be them for 15 years.


As wilton's post summed up earlier...NO, we really have not. Our strategy in the past was totally different. It was please non-educated fans and pretend to rebuild.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:21 am 
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urbanexplorer wrote:
Ryann wrote:
We have been trying to be them for 15 years.


As wilton's post summed up earlier...NO, we really have not. Our strategy in the past was totally different. It was please non-educated fans and pretend to rebuild.


Neal Huntington has been trying to rebuild since October of 2007 not 15 years...

2nd...is there a chance the Pirates could win next season?...yes, but very very slim...The planets will have to align and every person on the roster will need to have a career year...but in the meantime I will still watch in hopes of them winning but to see which guys on this roster will be able to contribute a few years from now when the talent is in the minors is ready...

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:42 am 
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Hell no. This team is a joke. Hellooo......


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