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 Post subject: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:33 pm 
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How could anyone be happy with this offseason? It proves the Pirates do not care about competing. If they cared about at least being slightly competitive next year they would go out and get a decent player for a cheap price. There are plenty of them out there but they wont sign anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:25 pm 
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There is no such thing as good players that sign cheap here. Those that did this offseason went to teams where they know they could be contenders. You would have to overpay for almost anyone to come here knowing they would be part of a losing team. We are stuck with whats left unfortunately. We all want to win, but it's not going to happen this season probably. We can maybe go after some guys who are lesser known like those two Cubans who just defected.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spcuba ... 5293.story

maybe we can go after these dudes.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Im frustrated as well, but lets be honest. Cabrera and Baldelli are pretty good indicators that if a player is merely good enough to have any choice at all they wont choose here. Who specifically would you go after? Burrell and Giambi are pretty good hitters signed at bargain prices. Think theydve chosen us over TB or Oakland? I dont see it.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
How could anyone be happy with this offseason?


Well, those of us smart enough to understand- that regardless of what the front office does this year, 2009 is going to be a losing year- are quite content. Its quite refreshing to see a GM focus on building a team for the future and not striving for 75 wins by signing Paul Byrd and Sean Casey.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:17 pm 
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You people are not real fans if you just are happy to see us have another losing season. We could sign cheaper free agents and have a 70-81 win season this year. And you never know we could strike gold in one or a few other suprises and be a winning playoff team.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:36 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
And you never know we could strike gold in one or a few other suprises and be a winning playoff team.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:37 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
You people are not real fans if you just are happy to see us have another losing season. We could sign cheaper free agents and have a 70-81 win season this year. And you never know we could strike gold in one or a few other suprises and be a winning playoff team.


Meanwhile, back on Earth...


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Come on, Argentum, that's not even close. The only person who thinks the Pirates are a playoff team is pictured below.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:56 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Come on, Argentum, that's not even close. The only person who thinks the Pirates are a playoff team is pictured below.

Image


Actually, even she doesnt think we can finish higher than 5th...


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:32 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
You people are not real fans if you just are happy to see us have another losing season.


No one said we were happy to see us have another losing season. Some of us just realize that nothing can be done about it, and it is better to not throw good money after bad. Just being realistic. Just because you *want* the Pirates to win doesn't mean they are going to, and certainly not by buying up the bargain free agents out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:27 am 
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Not many people thought the rays had any chance last year. Their young talent came through and got them to the world series they made many bargain pitcher and hitter deals in the offseason which were keys to their success. And their top talent was in the majors not in AAA.

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:29 am 
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To answer the question, no.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:09 am 
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BBF wrote:
Ryann wrote:
How could anyone be happy with this offseason?


Well, those of us smart enough to understand- that regardless of what the front office does this year, 2009 is going to be a losing year- are quite content. Its quite refreshing to see a GM focus on building a team for the future and not striving for 75 wins by signing Paul Byrd and Sean Casey.


Nobody is expecting them to go out and sign Manny Ramirez and Mark Teixiera, and certainly noone is advocating Huntington go out and sign a Burnitz or Casey type just for the sake of signing someone, but it is pretty disheartening to see the apathetic approach our front office has taken this offseason. We do have some holes on the roster that could be filled with a free agent signing or two unless those of you content with the inactivity this offseason are also content with Nyjer Morgan as an everyday outfielder and Zach Duke/Ross Ohlendorf/Jeff Karstens/Daniel McCutchen holding down the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. Why we're not making a better effort to sign an outfielder and at least one starting pitcher is beyond me. I realize the focus is on the future as it should be, but for those of us who don't have the ability to just cryogenically freeze ourselves and wake up when the Pirates are competitive and actually would like to have some reason to pay attention to the team this year, the fact that it seems they are doing absolutely nothing at all to avoid losing 110 games leaves a pretty bitter taste in your mouth.

Can't wait for unveiling of this year's marketing slogan:

2009: Who Cares?

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:06 pm 
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For those advocating we go out and sign free agents, I would again ask that you not speak in vagueries and tell us specifically whom youd target. This way we can more reasonably decide 1) if theres interest from other teams and if theyd actually come here, and 2) if theyd have the sort of impact that would make a substantial difference in our season. Until you can do that, youre not really making your case at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:14 pm 
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There is not a single person here that doesnt want to see the Pirates lose, with maybe the exception of BH, because he likes to get his jollies off rubbing it in our faces that ownership is bad...

But right now, its not worth bringing in a middle of the road free agent when there are unproven guys on this team that could be a middle of the road player and the team owns their rights for a long time...

You can always find middle of the road free agents every season, but it would be nice to finally see what the young guys on this team can do...(aka Morgan, Pearce, Moss, Andy LaRoche, Walker, etc...)

Going and buying guys just to end the losing for one season doesnt help you long term...So what the Pirates become known after 2009 as the team with the consecutive losing season record, when in a few years the team is a consistant contender for the NL Central built on a core of home grown players, and a few key free agent acquistions...

Look at the Rockies, do they look like they are going to win any titles soon after their 2007 World Series Appearance? What about those Marlin teams who won then were dismantled the following season?

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:15 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Nobody is expecting them to go out and sign Manny Ramirez and Mark Teixiera, and certainly noone is advocating Huntington go out and sign a Burnitz or Casey type just for the sake of signing someone, but it is pretty disheartening to see the apathetic approach our front office has taken this offseason. We do have some holes on the roster that could be filled with a free agent signing or two unless those of you content with the inactivity this offseason are also content with Nyjer Morgan as an everyday outfielder and Zach Duke/Ross Ohlendorf/Jeff Karstens/Daniel McCutchen holding down the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. Why we're not making a better effort to sign an outfielder and at least one starting pitcher is beyond me. I realize the focus is on the future as it should be, but for those of us who don't have the ability to just cryogenically freeze ourselves and wake up when the Pirates are competitive and actually would like to have some reason to pay attention to the team this year, the fact that it seems they are doing absolutely nothing at all to avoid losing 110 games leaves a pretty bitter taste in your mouth.

Can't wait for unveiling of this year's marketing slogan:

2009: Who Cares?

To quote Wilbur T. Miller:
Quote:
The single most surprising aspect, however, of the notion that the Pirates should make winning in 2009 their top priority is the fact that it’s precisely the strategy that Dave Littlefield and Kevin McClatchy followed. It’s amazing to me that the further Neal Huntington and Frank Coonelly depart from their incompetent predecessors’ strategies, the more they get pounded for it. Littlefield and McClatchy religiously avoided any moves that created the faintest appearance of rebuilding, with the lone, misbegotten exception of 2003 when Littlefield was ordered to cut payroll--and which isn't the same as rebuilding. They clung to their more visible players out of fear that any bold move might cause season ticket cancellations. They put all their effort into cobbling together that one .500 ball club, yet the end result was that the team not only kept losing in the short term, but laid waste to its own chances for long term success.

A lot of fans fail to recognize the true genius of Dave Littlefield. Although the continued losing ultimately undermined him, he was a master at doing things that looked good to the fans. He realized that most fans—including those vital season ticket holders—aren’t interested in prospects, so he didn’t bother with them. Instead, he clung to his few marketable faces and, when he acquired players from the outside, emphasized name recognition. Littlefield didn’t know how to build a baseball team, but he knew what the fans wanted to see and hear. I don’t know of any data to support this, but my impression was that most Pirate fans (average fans, not just the online fanatics) were pleased at the acquisitions of Jeromy Burnitz and Matt Morris. Without a doubt the fan base was ecstatic about the acquisitions of Joe Randa and Sean Casey. Littlefield went for moves that looked like improvements because moves that really are improvements for a struggling franchise are nearly always painful.... Littlefield’s and McClatchy’s single biggest failing was that they lacked the fortitude to make tough decisions, but now Huntington and Coonelly are being raked over the coals whenever they make one.


http://onlybucs.net/home/article.php?st ... 6113749871

Many of you would also benefit from reading Charlie Wilmoth's post on what the Bucs have done and should be doing to improve the team.
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2009/1/6/7105 ... the-minors

Here's another on the worst thing that a team can do: maintain mediocrity.
http://www.squawkingbaseball.com/?p=396

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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:20 pm 
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The Miller quote is a string of absolute bullseyes throughout.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:18 pm 
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No true. He was mostly on target, except for the Matt Morris deal. Everyone, and I mean everyone, recognized that as a terrible mistake, the day it was made.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:24 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
No true. He was mostly on target, except for the Matt Morris deal. Everyone, and I mean everyone, recognized that as a terrible mistake, the day it was made.


Wow. I was on plenty of Boards after that and it was amazing to me how many posters offered up the "if he can only find his old form" argument, or the "he pitched well earlier this year" argument, not to mention the always popular and usually bogus "he'll mentor the young players" argument, or finally, the equally maddening "we can get a prospect for him in trade next year" argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Is anyone happy with this offseason.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Guys I'm not asking them to go out and break the bank here. I'm just asking that we go out and get an outfielder so we don't have to trot Nyjer Morgan everyday until McCutchen's ready, and sign a pitcher that is at least better than Duke/Ohlendorf/Karstens/McCutchen.

Reread my post, I'm not advocating a Littlefield type cosmetic signing.

The fact that as of right now we're going with Nyjer Morgan as a starter and this rotation is mind boggling.

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