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 Post subject: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Pirates

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1. Harrison 2B
2. Mercer SS
3. McCutchen CF
4. Morneau 1B
5. Byrd RF
6. Alvarez 3B
7. Martin C
8. Tabata LF
9. Locke P

Pitcher: Jeff Locke (9-5) 3.23 ERA

Cubs

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1. Castro SS
2. Barney 2B
3. Rizzo 1B
4. Murphy 3B
5. Lake LF
6. Castillo C
7. McDonald RF
8. Sweeney CF
9. Rusin P

Pitcher: Chris Rusin (2-3) 2.89 ERA

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Last edited by IA Pirate on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Uh, I'm a big Justin Morneau fan, but, um, I thought Gaby Sanchez plays first base against LHP?

Don't be drawn in by three singles against lefties, Hurdle! Play the guy who can consistently hit LHP!


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:25 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Uh, I'm a big Justin Morneau fan, but, um, I thought Gaby Sanchez plays first base against LHP?

Don't be drawn in by three singles against lefties, Hurdle! Play the guy who can consistently hit LHP!


That surprised me as well. Morneau has played quite a bit since he's been a Pirate, I thought today would be a good day for a rest.

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:28 pm 
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IA, IA, IA, IA . . . . (shaking my head) . . .

Lind and Durham? You're killing me.

I sure hope that you are trying to exorcise demons and don't end up summonsing them!

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:31 pm 
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I would have Gaby in there as well. Only thing I can think of is to have a right handed power hitter coming off the bench. Don't know Cubs' roster well enough to know whether they have a decent LOOGY. Tony Sanchez would probably be just fine is a righty PH is needed though.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:39 pm 
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Hurdle was quoted yesterday when asked about the 'Cutch rest, that he was doing this for a deep breath and then "setting the lineup for a last push". I took that to mean he will play what he considers his best 8, regardless of matchups, down the stretch.

Morneau fits the top 8 in Hurdle's mind.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:48 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Hurdle was quoted yesterday when asked about the 'Cutch rest, that he was doing this for a deep breath and then "setting the lineup for a last push". I took that to mean he will play what he considers his best 8, regardless of matchups, down the stretch.

Morneau fits the top 8 in Hurdle's mind.

ZM


That's dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Gaby Sanchez sports a .991 OPS against left-handed pitchers this year. Morneau has a .550 OPS against lefties. Ignoring match-ups leads to bad results.

Besides, when the Pirates acquired Morneau, Hurdle said that they'd still use a platoon at first base. Is that out the window?


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Yet JM was 3-3 against leftie yesterday.

Was it dumb then?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:06 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yet JM was 3-3 against leftie yesterday.

Was it dumb then?

ZM


Apples to oranges.

I don't mind Hurdle leaving Morneau in the game to face lefties in the middle innings after starting the game against a right-handed pitcher. That's fine.

I DO have a problem with Hurdle starting Morneau's .550 OPS versus LHP over Sanchez's .991 OPS versus LHP. That's a bad move. Period.


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:38 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yet JM was 3-3 against leftie yesterday.

Was it dumb then?

ZM



The Pirates won without Cutch yesterday. Why exactly is he back in the lineup?

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:43 pm 
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I can think of a couple reasons, maybe.

Morneau is better defensively. Morneau has a better chance of hitting the ball over the Clemente wall than Sanchez does. Gaby hitting it out of left is remote.

They're paying Morneau alot of money each day that goes by.

Palms up.


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:43 pm 
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My point is this. Forget his OPS for the last two years. They were a function of his on-going concussion symptoms. They are past that now according to the reports I read and the scouts assessments.

He has hit lefties while here. Enough that Hurdle thinks he's back to his pre-concussion, .750 OPS against.

Works for me, in the short run at least.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:58 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Uh, I'm a big Justin Morneau fan, but, um, I thought Gaby Sanchez plays first base against LHP?

Don't be drawn in by three singles against lefties, Hurdle! Play the guy who can consistently hit LHP!

The lineup would be slightly weaker if Barmes played first and batted cleanup, but only slightly weaker.

Sometimes I just hate managers.

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:59 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yet JM was 3-3 against leftie yesterday.

Was it dumb then?

ZM

Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:01 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I can think of a couple reasons, maybe.

Morneau is better defensively. Morneau has a better chance of hitting the ball over the Clemente wall than Sanchez does. Gaby hitting it out of left is remote.

They're paying Morneau alot of money each day that goes by.

Palms up.

The greatest defensive first baseman in history doesn't save enough runs vs. the worst defensive first baseman in history to make up for a .400 gap in OPS, and Sanchez is at the very least an average first baseman.

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:03 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
My point is this. Forget his OPS for the last two years. They were a function of his on-going concussion symptoms. They are past that now according to the reports I read and the scouts assessments.

He has hit lefties while here. Enough that Hurdle thinks he's back to his pre-concussion, .750 OPS against.

Works for me, in the short run at least.

ZM

Who has brought up his OPS for the last two years? It's his OPS this year that sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:22 pm 
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I hate numbers. But while the numbers guys are at it, what were Morneau's numbers against lefties prior to his head injury?


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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:39 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I hate numbers. But while the numbers guys are at it, what were Morneau's numbers against lefties prior to his head injury?


OPS vs. LHP 2007-09:
.693 (223 PA)
.778 (253 PA)
.836 (226 PA)

CAREER OPS vs. LHP:
.712 (1816 PA)

MVP Season (2006):
.904 (229 PA)

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:41 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I hate numbers. But while the numbers guys are at it, what were Morneau's numbers against lefties prior to his head injury?


I don't think using a 32 year old's production during his prime seasons is a fair way to evaluate his current abilities.

The head injury is overplayed IMO. He fits the profile almost to a T of a guy who declines sharply after age 30.

Good for him having a big game yesterday, god knows he needed it badly, but let's not pretend like he's anywhere near the player he was in his age 26-30 years.

Maybe luck breaks his way again, but why make a decision based off of a hunch when you have evidence at hand?

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 Post subject: Re: September 12, 2013 Cubs (62-83) at Pirates (84-61)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:41 pm 
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As for the Gaby vs. JM debate, clearly CH came to his senses and realized how much Gaby blows.

If those nerds are right and Gaby is sooooooo good vs. lefties and that Morneau kid had three hits vs. lefties, then why can't Gaby hit 3 HR's/game vs. them?

Just calling it like I see it. :mrgreen:

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