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 Post subject: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:45 pm 
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....7th.

Got dinged big-time on financials, with a 7/30. Solid scores everywhere else, and a really impressive ranking given their financials being so low.

The breakdown was: Majors talent (21/30), Minors talent (25/30), Finance (7/30), Management (20/30), and Mobility (15/30). Mobility is whether they have young players or old players....so 15/30 seems fair as they have plenty of placeholders on the roster.

The highlighted breakout prospect was, not surprisingly, Tyler Glasnow, who they said has a fastball that's regarded as having 70-grade movement (along with sitting mid-90's).

They were ranked ahead of teams such as the Tigers, Braves, Orioles, Nationals, and Athletics....perennial contenders and/or "hot" younger teams. It's Insider so can't post it, but would gladly answer any questions.

In the division, the Cards were #1 overall, Cubs #6, Pirates #7, Reds #17, Milwaukee #30....just one more reason to stay the heck away from the Milwaukee strategy.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:40 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Cubs #6



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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:47 pm 
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It was really close, the 22/30 on Finance is what gave them the edge. Simply put, they have a massive TV deal and we don't.

They also got 26/30 on Management because of Theo Epstein's name. Not that they might not deserve it, just that it's a relatively high score for a team that bad.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:58 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
It was really close, the 22/30 on Finance is what gave them the edge. Simply put, they have a massive TV deal and we don't.

They also got 26/30 on Management because of Theo Epstein's name. Not that they might not deserve it, just that it's a relatively high score for a team that bad.


It probably all depends on the context of 'future power rankings'. That is, as a franchise the Cubs probably are #6. They've got a faithful fan base, and, as you point out, a ridiculous cash flow. Their new FO adds enough brownie points to keep them a stable force as an business enterprise.

As an on-the-field product though? The Cubs haven't had a bright future for over 100 years...

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:32 pm 
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I don't get the Theo Epstein thing. He might or might not be a good GM, but he didn't build the Red Sox. He happened to be in the seat when they finally won everything. Granted, he made some moves that helped them get there, but let's see how he does with the Cubs over the next three years.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:36 pm 
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How can Pittsburgh, a city within and followers all over the country, get a huge TV contact? Root sports doesn't pay out. See the Seattle mariners, Utah jazz and Colorado avalanche and rockies.

I could be wrong but there is a FOX sports Pittsburgh and man do they pay.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:44 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
How can Pittsburgh, a city within and followers all over the country, get a huge TV contact? Root sports doesn't pay out. See the Seattle mariners, Utah jazz and Colorado avalanche and rockies.

I could be wrong but there is a FOX sports Pittsburgh and man do they pay.


Fox Sports Pittsburgh is now Root Sports...

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:48 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
How can Pittsburgh, a city within and followers all over the country, get a huge TV contact? Root sports doesn't pay out. See the Seattle mariners, Utah jazz and Colorado avalanche and rockies.

I could be wrong but there is a FOX sports Pittsburgh and man do they pay.


Fox Sports Pittsburgh is now Root Sports...


Oh, if that's the case can't root sports shell out a new contract? Fox sports and the angels agreed to an enormous contract. If root sports can buy out fox sports wouldn't they mean they're loaded? I don't know all the details and can't find any information on it.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:50 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
See the Seattle mariners


I'd really rather not. :D

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:59 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
How can Pittsburgh, a city within and followers all over the country, get a huge TV contact? Root sports doesn't pay out. See the Seattle mariners, Utah jazz and Colorado avalanche and rockies.

I could be wrong but there is a FOX sports Pittsburgh and man do they pay.


Fox Sports Pittsburgh is now Root Sports...


Oh, if that's the case can't root sports shell out a new contract? Fox sports and the angels agreed to an enormous contract. If root sports can buy out fox sports wouldn't they mean they're loaded? I don't know all the details and can't find any information on it.


Sure, had the Pirates asked for one. As it is, they negotiated a long term contract (15 years? I don't remember). Maybe when that one is up, we can ask for one at the new market rate.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Yeah, maybe root sports can renew it out of respect for the franchise that equally supports them. Contacts don't always have to last their entirety without negotiations. Maybe then Cutch would get the money he deserves as well as keeping players in house, at least through their prime if their deserving.

Speaking of contacts, good on Cutch for taking less than he could've gotten. Ball players probably make more than they need but he still could've gotten a lot more. He doesn't control the market and he should get it while being a bucco.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:08 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Yeah, maybe root sports can renew it out of respect for the franchise that equally supports them. Contacts don't always have to last their entirety without negotiations. Maybe then Cutch would get the money he deserves as well as keeping players in house, at least through their prime if their deserving.

Speaking of contacts, good on Cutch for taking less than he could've gotten. Ball players probably make more than they need but he still could've gotten a lot more. He doesn't control the market and he should get it while being a bucco.

Cutch didn't take less than he could have gotten. He wasn't a free agent. The Pirates could have paid him league minimum until arbitration, then ridden out the arbitration years. He got more money than he could have foreseen getting by going that route, and gained the security of a guarantee in case he suffered serious injury. His contract was right in line with similar players who signed extensions, and Cutch didn't know any more than Huntington did that he was on the verge of turning into an MVP-type player.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:13 pm 
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I think the main issue is that it's a small market, and the TV deals are all based on potential advertising revenue...aka TV sets in the area. The Pirates have a passionate fanbase, but it doesn't bring the TV sets. You have Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philly, Baltimore, Washington, and the NY teams surrounding us so it's not like we can claim a widespread distribution of TVs.

Kind of similar to college football expansion. Syracuse and Pitt get picked because a Conference can claim Pennsylvania and NY television sets, then West Virginia gets stuck in the Big 12 because they don't have as many TVs to bring in revenue -- despite having a more interested fanbase (I don't believe that basketball played all that big of a role in the decisions....UL and UConn got left out initially).

Teams like the Mets, Angels, and White Sox might be a minority team in their given cities, but they still get huge deals because they have the advertising potential that comes with being in New York, Chicago, LA (kind of....they claim LA at least).

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:29 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
Yeah, maybe root sports can renew it out of respect for the franchise that equally supports them. Contacts don't always have to last their entirety without negotiations. Maybe then Cutch would get the money he deserves as well as keeping players in house, at least through their prime if their deserving.

Speaking of contacts, good on Cutch for taking less than he could've gotten. Ball players probably make more than they need but he still could've gotten a lot more. He doesn't control the market and he should get it while being a bucco.

Cutch didn't take less than he could have gotten. He wasn't a free agent. The Pirates could have paid him league minimum until arbitration, then ridden out the arbitration years. He got more money than he could have foreseen getting by going that route, and gained the security of a guarantee in case he suffered serious injury. His contract was right in line with similar players who signed extensions, and Cutch didn't know any more than Huntington did that he was on the verge of turning into an MVP-type player.


I wonder if Cutch's deal would have been different if he had signed after Adam Jones got his deal.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:15 am 
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Oh yeah? The E60 thing I watched made it sound like he was underpayed. Foolish.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:51 am 
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BBF wrote:

Sure, had the Pirates asked for one. As it is, they negotiated a long term contract (15 years? I don't remember). Maybe when that one is up, we can ask for one at the new market rate.


This is not quite true, as the Pirates newer TV deal was negotiated before all the big cash deals happened. When they negotiated, there was no "big cash" to be had in this type market.

In the long run, their contract will probably be more the norm, as Dish and other a la carte type viewing becomes dominant. Those big Angels deals are based not so much on market size as they are on the cable system force feeding unwanted channels, and their advertising, on the viewer. The push for a la carte programming (Roku, others) and the Hopper, should soon make those contracts untenable and renegotiated.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:40 am 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Oh yeah? The E60 thing I watched made it sound like he was underpayed. Foolish.


He is but he could've been more underpaid if we went to arbitration with him and paid him league minimum for another year. They're paying more than they had to, he took a bit less than he'd have gotten on the open market for more security. Solid deal for both, he's getting paid like a 5.0 WAR player towards the end of it, which was an ambitious goal at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:10 am 
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What other Television group in the Pittsburgh area would have given anything to the Pirates?

It's Root Sports or nothing...I don't think the Pirates had much of a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:23 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
BBF wrote:

Sure, had the Pirates asked for one. As it is, they negotiated a long term contract (15 years? I don't remember). Maybe when that one is up, we can ask for one at the new market rate.


This is not quite true, as the Pirates newer TV deal was negotiated before all the big cash deals happened. When they negotiated, there was no "big cash" to be had in this type market.

In the long run, their contract will probably be more the norm, as Dish and other a la carte type viewing becomes dominant. Those big Angels deals are based not so much on market size as they are on the cable system force feeding unwanted channels, and their advertising, on the viewer. The push for a la carte programming (Roku, others) and the Hopper, should soon make those contracts untenable and renegotiated.

ZM


I didn't mean to imply (and didn't think I did) that the Pirates got their deal after these "going rates" went up, rather just meant to indicate we are locked in to our deal for less than what teams are getting now.

While I have more doubts than you do about the demise of the current cable TV structure, if what you are saying does come to pass, that may be good for parity in MLB. National TV rights and MLB subscription packages are split evenly, if I recall correctly. More people subscribing to that (and conversely the fewer people watching on their local cable monopoly) means more money split evenly and less value (money) in local broadcast rights.

I know I for one will be going the Netflix/Hulu+/MLB.tv/NHL Center Ice path as soon as my Directv contract is up. But I don't see the bulk of the market heading in that direction in this generation.


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 Post subject: Re: ESPN Future Power Rankings: Pirates are.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:49 pm 
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I think it will happen sooner rather than later. The key will be IMO, the results of Dish's on-going court case centered on their willingness to use a la carte programming. See Winfrey, Oprah and Beck, Glenn subscription channels.

Like you going all .com viewing, I think many, many others will follow.

ZM

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