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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:13 am 
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Let me enlighten some of the newer members of board on how we handle incidents and problems on this board. Although, I am a moderator and control the admin of the board, I do not resolve any controversies or conflicts. I do not make any decisions by myself. What I do is identify a situation that needs attention and then I poll five senior board members and let them resolve the issue. I use the number 5 because we will get a majority one way or another. So as corrupt as I am, any incidents that happen are decided by a jury of your peers.

The good news is we rarely have issues. Maybe three or four times a year at most. But although the board will flare up here and there, it usually handles itself.

Yes, there are certain posters who are not well-like. The infamous Estrago stayed on this board for a very long time before the membership finally had enough. But the BOARD made the decision to ban him. We also have people who venture into politics and religion which everyone knows creates issues. Heck, we lost one of our best baseball posters because of it and that stinks.

This will be my last word on this topic because honestly, I know the whole situation and what happened and it wasn't even a big deal. Others may choose to attest to that or not. But the bottom line is that the BOARD resolved it and when there is a controversy or disagreement, one side usually ends up feeling spurned because it didn't go there way.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:27 am 
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Well, the BOARD didn't vote to banish me, because my username and password still work. So the BOARD must have voted to give Bucco Boy carte blanche to delete my posts capriciously as he saw fit, because he deleted about a dozen of them over the last week that I was here. And he didn't hold individual votes on all of his deletions, because most of them were taken down within minutes.

And frankly, Bucco Boy, your word carries no weight with me anymore. You've proven yourself to be a self-aggrandizing liar who does not hesitate for a second to mischaracterize something in order to justify your opinion. What a disappointment. What a goddamn shame.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:41 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
I'll attack/criticize you because you're a liar and a coward and you abused your power. You decided that I was a problem because ZelieMike and a few of his friends don't like my politics, so you made it intolerable for me so I'd leave. That's disgraceful.

Trump up allegations about my so-called meltdown and mock me all you want. Fact is, I didn't do anything on here that other people don't do all the time. The only difference is, I hold an opinion that was unpopular on this board. If I'd have made the exact same arguments for the opposite side, you wouldn't have felt the need to usher me out of here. You're a petty, pathetic little man, BB.


I don't know how this started, but your politics don't mean sh*t to me. It is your "in your face" use of YOUR politics infused in a supposed baseball discussion that pisses me off.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:01 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
I'll attack/criticize you because you're a liar and a coward and you abused your power. You decided that I was a problem because ZelieMike and a few of his friends don't like my politics, so you made it intolerable for me so I'd leave. That's disgraceful.

Trump up allegations about my so-called meltdown and mock me all you want. Fact is, I didn't do anything on here that other people don't do all the time. The only difference is, I hold an opinion that was unpopular on this board. If I'd have made the exact same arguments for the opposite side, you wouldn't have felt the need to usher me out of here. You're a petty, pathetic little man, BB.


You know....Lurking was working out much better for you. I have no idea what your politics are. What your message was, or what your stance was that the mod didn't particularly like. However, This is a message board. There is no guaranty of freedom of speech here. If that is what you are looking for you need to stand on a box in a public park. You can ramble on forever. But on a message board the moderators can eliminate whoever and whatever they deem necessary. Its just the way it is. And the way it should be.

I used to belong to a fantasy football board where the mod thought of himself as a philosopher. One day I said something he really didn't like and he went on the attack. It was mentally consuming after a small battle and exchange of words. I simply moved on. That was freedom of choice. I still lurk there every so often. I even post from time to time. I just learned through the incident what not to post. And because i learned that, the bad history is in the past. Again this place, like that place was for enjoyment and not for a place to pile onto peoples stress piles. And you are piling on top of an old stress pile with your last two posts. Why?

My advice is to either let it go,....Start over and have some fun with the group....or find something else to do. That's freedom of choice.


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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:04 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
Delurking for a moment to note that, when I read this thread yesterday afternoon, there was a post (I don't remember the author, sorry) that mentioned all the combativeness that took place on here late last year when things started going poorly for the Pirates and how the board really hasn't been the same since, in the poster's humble opinion. I notice now that that post has been deleted.

I can't say as I'm surprised to see this, since I made a post last year similarly questioning the direction that the board was heading ... which Bucco Boy then deleted in very short order. It seems our Fearless Leader is a bit thin-skinned when it comes to criticism of his stewardship of this board, and not above abusing his power as moderator to indulge his censorious impulses. That's why I don't post here anymore; I lurk occasionally, because there are a lot of people on here I like and whose opinions I enjoy reading, but Bucco Boy is corrupt with his power and can not be trusted, and obviously, I'm not going to post here under those conditions.

BTW, Bucco Boy: Be a man for once and don't delete this post. I dare you.


Not to choose sides here, but to be fair, I posted the post Judge refers to above - it was actually in another thread started by tprothro ("Other Bucco Boards?"), and has not been deleted.


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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:05 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I don't know how this started, but your politics don't mean sh*t to me. It is your "in your face" use of YOUR politics infused in a supposed baseball discussion that pisses me off.

ZM


ZM is referencing some brief, random post from last year when we got some good news regarding someone coming off the DL sooner than expected, and I passed on the news and added "Praise Allah".

ZM assumed that I was baiting him with the "Praise Allah" part, since he's a conservative. This was apropos of nothing, because the political argument we'd just had had nothing to do with Islam. (I was just doing it as a lark, because I do that with language sometimes.) But he presumed that, since I'm a liberal, all of my energies are obviously aimed at annoying conservatives like him. So presumably, if I mention Andrew McCutchen in a post, ZM will take this to be a dig about the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. (Since Cutch is black. And the effects of the repeal of the VRA will disproportionately affect black voters. See the connection?) My politics DO mean sh*t to you, Mike. You were (and apparently still are) so angry with me that you're drawing irrational conclusions and acting like an ass.

Hey Mike, just so you know: I've got better things to do than troll you. Get over yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:06 am 
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Scrap Iron wrote:
Judge Landis wrote:
Delurking for a moment to note that, when I read this thread yesterday afternoon, there was a post (I don't remember the author, sorry) that mentioned all the combativeness that took place on here late last year when things started going poorly for the Pirates and how the board really hasn't been the same since, in the poster's humble opinion. I notice now that that post has been deleted.

I can't say as I'm surprised to see this, since I made a post last year similarly questioning the direction that the board was heading ... which Bucco Boy then deleted in very short order. It seems our Fearless Leader is a bit thin-skinned when it comes to criticism of his stewardship of this board, and not above abusing his power as moderator to indulge his censorious impulses. That's why I don't post here anymore; I lurk occasionally, because there are a lot of people on here I like and whose opinions I enjoy reading, but Bucco Boy is corrupt with his power and can not be trusted, and obviously, I'm not going to post here under those conditions.

BTW, Bucco Boy: Be a man for once and don't delete this post. I dare you.


Not to choose sides here, but to be fair, I posted the post Judge refers to above - it was actually in another thread started by tprothro ("Other Bucco Boards?"), and has not been deleted.


Oh. My mistake about that point, then. I still stand behind everything I've said about what happened last year, though.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:12 am 
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Side bar: Hey Judge, The Hinterlands of Northwestern PA ..Where abouts is that. I have family in knox, Clairion, New Bethlem and of all places...Rimer.


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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:41 am 
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Memo to the Judge: Go back to lurking.

It's not that you have different views, or espouse them fervently. It's that you are so quick to jump to calling names, which you did in your second post back here. Being a mod is a thankless task, made only more interesting by getting called names over the internet. So, let me take a moment to thank our mods because this place is pretty well behaved compared to others I've been on. You're doing something right.


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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:37 am 
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Judge Landis and Bucco Boy: Both of you need to knock off the ad hominum attacks. The insults are just juvenile, go nowhere and just throw gasoline on to a roaring fire.

Can we behave like grownups here and hammer things out?


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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:40 am 
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Judge Landis wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
I don't know how this started, but your politics don't mean sh*t to me. It is your "in your face" use of YOUR politics infused in a supposed baseball discussion that pisses me off.

ZM


ZM is referencing some brief, random post from last year when we got some good news regarding someone coming off the DL sooner than expected, and I passed on the news and added "Praise Allah".

ZM assumed that I was baiting him with the "Praise Allah" part, since he's a conservative. This was apropos of nothing, because the political argument we'd just had had nothing to do with Islam. (I was just doing it as a lark, because I do that with language sometimes.) But he presumed that, since I'm a liberal, all of my energies are obviously aimed at annoying conservatives like him. So presumably, if I mention Andrew McCutchen in a post, ZM will take this to be a dig about the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. (Since Cutch is black. And the effects of the repeal of the VRA will disproportionately affect black voters. See the connection?) My politics DO mean sh*t to you, Mike. You were (and apparently still are) so angry with me that you're drawing irrational conclusions and acting like an ass.

Hey Mike, just so you know: I've got better things to do than troll you. Get over yourself.


No, I am referencing your on-going baiting to what you considered conservative stereotypes. Just like this reference to 'Cutch. You seemingly cannot get through a baseball reference without a dig at Fox News, southern hicks, or whatever strikes you as the stereotype of the moment.

And, the "praise Allah" statement was just the last in a long line of these and after quite a public plea to "just talk baseball" in threads.

I have no visions of you trolling me, yet it is you who keep doing this.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:43 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I think you'd have to set a baseline on the expected success rate of moves like these. I don't have the time or the resources to do so so I really don't know what's good and what's bad.


They do. It's called the standings. Why is everyone so impressed with Huntington in 2013? 81-58. It's not because Liriano or Martin are good, in abstentia; rather, it's because the team -- the amalgamation of all of Huntington's moves -- is actually really good.

Win and be lauded. Lose and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.



If you judge management after the fact based simply on their results you're always going to be behind.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:44 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
GMs are judged by wins and losses. Period. If you make a bunch of great personnel moves but never construct a winning team, who cares?



If you make a bunch of great personnel moves and STILL can't build a winning team, then something is wrong here.


Would you consider Brian Cashman to be a better GM than....say, any other GM?

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:47 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Yup. It's all luck. Let's just write an algorithm that captures NH's methodology and it'll tell the Pirates what moves to make. Execution is all luck, so it will be just as effective... and cheaper.



By definition you couldn't "write an algorithm" that accounted for luck.

All moves, by any GM, have some degree of risk. If everyone knew Liriano was going to do this, then teams would have been beating down his door. The White Sox GM is an idiot for picking him up just last year.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:50 am 
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Corsair wrote:
Judge Landis and Bucco Boy: Both of you need to knock off the ad hominum attacks. The insults are just juvenile, go nowhere and just throw gasoline on to a roaring fire.

Can we behave like grownups here and hammer things out?


There's nothing to hammer out, Bob. Beyond my misgivings about posting on a board where my comments are going to be censored for no legitimate reason, it's been made plainly obvious to me that I don't fit in here anymore. You don't notice it because you've been here the whole time, but take it from someone who wasn't around for 7 years: This board has changed. I fit in back in the Wild West days when No. 12 was running things. I don't belong here anymore. I'm not going to post here anymore. I had one last thing to say and I said it. I'm out.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:47 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Yup. It's all luck. Let's just write an algorithm that captures NH's methodology and it'll tell the Pirates what moves to make. Execution is all luck, so it will be just as effective... and cheaper.



By definition you couldn't "write an algorithm" that accounted for luck.

All moves, by any GM, have some degree of risk. If everyone knew Liriano was going to do this, then teams would have been beating down his door. The White Sox GM is an idiot for picking him up just last year.


Bingo. Again, Liriano took 1M guaranteed and a team option. The Yankees were the only other suitor for Martin and refused to match us.

Let's not forget that he also signed Brandon Inge and acquired John McDonald....2 more guys who fit the mold of old players that nobody else wanted but could bridge a small gap for cheap.

They sucked. Nothing about Liriano or Martin's profile indicates that Huntington switched his approach and Inge/McDonald reinforce that signing old players to stopgap deals is a roll of the dice.

I like Huntington because he doesn't get fleeced in every trade like Littlefield seemingly did and he drafts/develops well. I also think, for the most part, he builds a small market team the right way. I'll judge his free agent signings when he's in a position to go out and get a guy rather than picking guys up off the scrap heap. Right now they're still feeling their way through holes, IMO, for the actual window.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:55 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Yup. It's all luck. Let's just write an algorithm that captures NH's methodology and it'll tell the Pirates what moves to make. Execution is all luck, so it will be just as effective... and cheaper.

Execution on whose part? The GM's? The GM is not the person throwing pitches from the mound; that's the player. The GM can only choose whether or not to employ the player based on certain expectations. It is up to the players to actually perform up to those expectations on the baseball field.

Outside of the broken arm fiasco, the execution on Huntington's part between signing Bedard and signing Liriano is, for all intents and purposes, identical. Both pitchers were former lefty strikeout artists whose recent performances, up to the time that they were signed by the Pirates, fell off considerably. The only differences between the two signings are the results thereafter: Bedard performed poorly over the course of his employment, while Liriano has performed very well. If you're going to tell me that there was some improved decision making by Huntington regarding Liriano's signing that was not present regarding Bedard's signing, then I'd love to hear your explanation on what that was.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:00 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Yup. It's all luck. Let's just write an algorithm that captures NH's methodology and it'll tell the Pirates what moves to make. Execution is all luck, so it will be just as effective... and cheaper.



By definition you couldn't "write an algorithm" that accounted for luck.

All moves, by any GM, have some degree of risk. If everyone knew Liriano was going to do this, then teams would have been beating down his door. The White Sox GM is an idiot for picking him up just last year.


Bingo. Again, Liriano took 1M guaranteed and a team option. The Yankees were the only other suitor for Martin and refused to match us.

Let's not forget that he also signed Brandon Inge and acquired John McDonald....2 more guys who fit the mold of old players that nobody else wanted but could bridge a small gap for cheap.

They sucked. Nothing about Liriano or Martin's profile indicates that Huntington switched his approach and Inge/McDonald reinforce that signing old players to stopgap deals is a roll of the dice.

I like Huntington because he doesn't get fleeced in every trade like Littlefield seemingly did and he drafts/develops well. I also think, for the most part, he builds a small market team the right way. I'll judge his free agent signings when he's in a position to go out and get a guy rather than picking guys up off the scrap heap. Right now they're still feeling their way through holes, IMO, for the actual window.

Actually, I'll counter your assessment of the Martin signing. I'm betting that the Pirates saw something in Martin that few other teams saw or valued, which is why they put forth such a high offer to him. And based on our conversations regarding pitch-framing, its value and how good Martin is at it, I'm betting that the thing the Pirates saw was exactly that.

Of course, I don't know exactly what went on in Huntington's head when he made the effort to sign Martin, but I'm guessing that the Pirates were ahead of the curve on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: You know who I miss on days like this?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if they saw something in the pitch framing. I'm just not sure he's a guy they'd have gone over 2 years for. I think they saw something the Yankees didn't, which caused them to not match a relatively small offer, although the offer was big enough that they probably thought the bat would bounce back to some extent. Lucky for us, it has. Barmes has more or less filled the defensive end of his bargain, too, but the bat's been pretty underwhelming by and large.

They seem to do okay when they target defense, there's no denying that at all. Probably because other teams overpay for offense/scoring runs so the Pirates can save on defense/saving runs.

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