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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:06 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
I don't care what his splits are, I'm not a sabermetric guy. Tabata doesn't impact a game well enough, especially from the leadoff spot to warrant playing everyday. His defense is average, flat footed running and all. When he gets on first he's not going anywhere where he's creating the action. Pie hit lefties well this year, he can play defense and he can run. A platoon wouldn't hurt a thing.

So how Tabata actually hits doesn't matter, all that matters is how you think he hits.

I'm assuming that you meant that Felix Pie hit righties this year, to which I say, so what? YOU'RE NOT A SABREMETRIC GUY.

How in the hell can you say that you don't care about lefty/right splits, then use lefty/righty splits to defend your argument in the SAME FREAKING PARAGRAPH?????

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:09 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
If Pie remains on the roster after the changes I think it makes since to give him a few looks over Tabata. Tabata is a platoon player, not much more. He wasn't an everyday player before marte's injury, he shouldn't be now.


Tabata OPS vs. righties - .737
Tabata OPS vs. lefties - .757

Tabata career OPS vs. righties - .709
Tabata career OPS vs. lefties - .737

Bookmark this site and check it before posting and you'll look much smarter.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/


Don't care one bit about that site, but thanks anyways.

You ought to. It will keep you from making so many asinine statements that are untrue.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:13 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
I don't care what his splits are, I'm not a sabermetric guy. Tabata doesn't impact a game well enough, especially from the leadoff spot to warrant playing everyday. His defense is average, flat footed running and all. When he gets on first he's not going anywhere where he's creating the action. Pie hit lefties well this year, he can play defense and he can run. A platoon wouldn't hurt a thing.


You don't care about splits yet your original criticism of Tabata was that he didn't hit RHP well enough and are arguing he should be in a platoon. Gotcha.


My argument is Tabata was a platoon player before the injury to Marte, let's not act like he's an everyday player now. He's a nice fill in whilethe better player, Marte, is hurt. Against a right handed pitcher I'd rather see a left handed option get a start offer the fragile Tabata. He needs days off, yes? His defense can be suspect, he's not as fast as he once was, can barely lift his legs. He's no longer a steal threat. He is what he is, our whatever saber metric websites say.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:18 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
TheShark wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
I don't care what his splits are, I'm not a sabermetric guy. Tabata doesn't impact a game well enough, especially from the leadoff spot to warrant playing everyday. His defense is average, flat footed running and all. When he gets on first he's not going anywhere where he's creating the action. Pie hit lefties well this year, he can play defense and he can run. A platoon wouldn't hurt a thing.


You don't care about splits yet your original criticism of Tabata was that he didn't hit RHP well enough and are arguing he should be in a platoon. Gotcha.


My argument is Tabata was a platoon player before the injury to Marte, let's not act like he's an everyday player now. He's a nice fill in whilethe better player, Marte, is hurt. Against a right handed pitcher I'd rather see a left handed option get a start offer the fragile Tabata. He needs days off, yes? His defense can be suspect, he's not as fast as he once was, can barely lift his legs. He's no longer a steal threat. He is what he is, our whatever saber metric websites say.

What Tabata is is a guy who gets on base at a high rate, which is far and away the single most important attribute for a leadoff hitter. What Pie is is a guy who makes lots and lots of outs, which is far and away the single worst attribute for any leadoff hitter, and which is why he was signed to a minor league contract and spent almost the whole season putting up mediocre numbers at Indianapolis.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:25 pm 
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So sabermetric websites will make me a baseball know it all, got it. A left hander who hits right handed pitchers better than the right handed batter should be passed over simply because they're younger than the right handed batter who is in his third season yet has barely played a full year. A right handed batter who can't handle the everyday grind of a baseball season, who previously this season was a platoon player and is playing everyday because of injury.

Okay, I don't care where this went. Against a right handed pitcher an outfield of Lambo or pie I'd prefer , unless Tabata favors that pitcher. Then that doesn't mean much either because there's a good chance Tabata will pull up lame.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Yes, quoting batting averages from baseball reference will make you a sabermetric know-it-all.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:27 pm 
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You have to figure you can live with the lack of power from Tabata because it's made up by McCutchen. McCutchen is putting up corner outfield numbers from CF while Tabata is putting up centerfield numbers playing the corner. I just wish the guy could stay healthy and he'd be an alright player.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Tabata services would be suited better down in the order. He has a hard time creating anything on his own on the base pads. Surprised he didn't pull up lame on his triple tonight.

How many bases has he swiped this year? That's still a useful stat, no. fan graphs will probably give me that info.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:30 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
So sabermetric websites will make me a baseball know it all, got it. A left hander who hits right handed pitchers better than the right handed batter should be passed over simply because they're younger than the right handed batter who is in his third season yet has barely played a full year. A right handed batter who can't handle the everyday grind of a baseball season, who previously this season was a platoon player and is playing everyday because of injury.

Okay, I don't care where this went. Against a right handed pitcher an outfield of Lambo or pie I'd prefer , unless Tabata favors that pitcher. Then that doesn't mean much either because there's a good chance Tabata will pull up lame.

It's not a sabremetric website. It's a statistical website. It has all of the traditional statistics that you love, and enough other numbers to keep you from saying dumb things like "Jose Tabata is a platoon player" when Jose Tabata actually hits righties almost as well as he hits lefties.

Garrett Jones is a platoon player.
Gaby Sanchez is a platoon player.
Jose Tabata is not a platoon player.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:34 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Tabata services would be suited better down in the order. He has a hard time creating anything on his own on the base pads. Surprised he didn't pull up lame on his triple tonight.

How many bases has he swiped this year? That's still a useful stat, no. fan graphs will probably give me that info.

Stealing bases is not the most important skill for a leadoff hitter. Getting on base is the most important skill for a leadoff hitter.

See Boggs, Wade.

Rickey Henderson was the best leadoff hitter I ever saw. Why? Because he got on base at a .401 clip. You can take away 90% of his stolen base attempts and he'd STILL be a great leadoff hitter.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:48 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Garrett Jones is a platoon player.
Gaby Sanchez is a platoon player.
Jose Tabata is not a platoon player.


No, Tabata is an above average bench player. There is a reason the Pirates went out and found a right fielder.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:52 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Garrett Jones is a platoon player.
Gaby Sanchez is a platoon player.
Jose Tabata is not a platoon player.


No, Tabata is an above average bench player. There is a reason the Pirates went out and found a right fielder.

I never said that Tabata was a star. I said that he has very little in the way of a platoon split.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:54 pm 
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A right fielder with some pop. An outfield of Cutch, Marte and Byrd. Tabata not an everyday player.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:56 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
A right fielder with some pop. An outfield of Cutch, Marte and Byrd. Tabata not an everyday player.


Exactly. An outfield with Cutch, Marte, and Polanco...not and everyday player.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:57 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Garrett Jones is a platoon player.
Gaby Sanchez is a platoon player.
Jose Tabata is not a platoon player.


No, Tabata is an above average bench player. There is a reason the Pirates went out and found a right fielder.

I never said that Tabata was a star. I said that he has very little in the way of a platoon split.


It doesn't hurt a thing giving Lambo a start over Tabata. Tabata could probably use the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:59 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
A right fielder with some pop. An outfield of Cutch, Marte and Byrd. Tabata not an everyday player.


Exactly. An outfield with Cutch, Marte, and Polanco...not and everyday player.


Polanco is going to be a special player, bookmark.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:16 am 
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This whole thread is confusing.

Anyway, anyone who suggests that Felix Pie is a better option than Jose Tabata has been hanging out with Lamar Odom a bit too much.


Last edited by JollyRoger on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:38 am 
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JollyRoger wrote:
This whole thread is confusing.

Anyway, any suggestion that Felix Pie is a better option than Jose Tabata has been hanging out with Lamar Odom a bit too much.


Amen JR.

There is a reason why Pie was out of the majors at the age of 26.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:51 am 
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Some of you fellas really struggle with reading comprehension. I never suggested that Pie wields a heavier bat than Tabata. He doesn't. But he's a decent, albeit lesser, stick against right-handers and his defense is a solid improvement over Tabata's. To wit:

J_C_Steel wrote:
2. Give Pie a few more starts in left against right-handed pitchers, especially in PNC Park. I like Pie's speed and glove better than Tabata's in PNC's spacious left field, and he looks surprisingly capable at the dish as well.


That is not a ridiculous suggestion. First, I was correct that the Pirates wanted to keep Pie on the squad in lieu of simply DFAing him. Second, he was a defensive replacement last night. Accordingly, my suggestion that Pie get a few starts against right-handers at PNC Park because he plays better defense than Tabata in PNC's cavernous left field is not a ridiculous opinion.

Oh, I was also right about Jeff Locke.

But hey, carry on...


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging On...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:04 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
So sabermetric websites will make me a baseball know it all, got it. A left hander who hits right handed pitchers better than the right handed batter should be passed over simply because they're younger than the right handed batter who is in his third season yet has barely played a full year. A right handed batter who can't handle the everyday grind of a baseball season, who previously this season was a platoon player and is playing everyday because of injury.

Stop claiming that Tabata is or was a platoon player. You have no evidence that lends credence to this notion.

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