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 Post subject: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:22 am 
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Very weird.

Another not-so-great performance by Locke.

Was pretty boring until the Bucs got it going.

Two blown opportunites by the normally reliable Bucs bullpen.

Two weird, but good infield plays. Walker fakes out runner and gets out at 3b, and the awesome DP in 9th.

Strong performance by Pie off the bench.

We'll get them tonight!

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:54 am 
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How many ground rule doubles have cost the Bucs a run recently? Has it been 3 or 4 in the past week? Seems like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:05 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
How many ground rule doubles have cost the Bucs a run recently? Has it been 3 or 4 in the past week? Seems like it.


Yeah, I forgot about that. That sucked too!

On another note, could Pedro be starting another hot streak?? He looked awesome last nigth. This would be a good time for it!

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Didn't the Bucs put up 14 hits last night?... not to mention there were at least another 4-5 rocket line drives that are always hit right to a fielder. Combine that with (outside of A Ram) dink and dunk bs hits from the beer makers and it was totally frustrating to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Bucs aren't playing good TEAM ball right now and they need to dig out of this 3 game skid before late August and September become another trend.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:58 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
Bucs aren't playing good TEAM ball right now and they need to dig out of this 3 game skid before late August and September become another trend.


They just simply need to sit Locke down. Or bull pen him. Let Gomez get a start or two.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:00 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
Bucs aren't playing good TEAM ball right now and they need to dig out of this 3 game skid before late August and September become another trend.


They just simply need to sit Locke down. Or bull pen him. Let Gomez get a start or two.



+1


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:28 pm 
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From the game thread:

This loss p*ssed me off. In my view, you can highlight five things leading to the loss:

1. Bad luck in the first. Locke gives up a first inning run without the ball ever leaving the infield.

2. Bad pitching by Locke after the first. Locked started to get hit hard and he is fading fast.

3. Sub-par defense in left field. Tabata allows a double to Ramirez off of his glove on a ball that Marte would have caught as a matter of routine.

4. Bad luck with a ground rule double. For the third time in the last week, El Toro hits a double with a guy on first who would have scored, but has to stay at third base because the ball bounced over the wall.

5. Terrible at-bat by Garrett Jones. Men on first and third, one out, and a 3-1 count. Jones pops it up to continue a 1 for 29 streak.

Only 2 and 5 can be readily fixed, and 3 will be rectified when Marte returns. You can't do anything about 1 and 4.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:49 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
From the game thread:

This loss p*ssed me off. In my view, you can highlight five things leading to the loss:

1. Bad luck in the first. Locke gives up a first inning run without the ball ever leaving the infield.

2. Bad pitching by Locke after the first. Locked started to get hit hard and he is fading fast.

3. Sub-par defense in left field. Tabata allows a double to Ramirez off of his glove on a ball that Marte would have caught as a matter of routine.

4. Bad luck with a ground rule double. For the third time in the last week, El Toro hits a double with a guy on first who would have scored, but has to stay at third base because the ball bounced over the wall.

5. Terrible at-bat by Garrett Jones. Men on first and third, one out, and a 3-1 count. Jones pops it up to continue a 1 for 29 streak.

Only 2 and 5 can be readily fixed, and 3 will be rectified when Marte returns. You can't do anything about 1 and 4.


Or we can he HONEST...

There was no sub-par defense by Tabata. Marte may or may not have had that ball. Why do you make statements like this?

Bad luck with the ground rule double, but good luck in that the ball Pie hit was dropped in RF, yet he was given a hit.. That evened out. More than evened out... Should have been the third out, and the Bucs would have gotten nothing!

Yes, bad at bat by Jones, but still not the WORST. We still had an opportunity with guys were still on first and third, for the usually reliable RBI guy, Walker...but he struck out.

And despite everything, the Bucs could have won in the 9th...with tying run on second, only to see Martin (who had a horrible game) lined out and Gaby, (who had an equally horrible game), grounded out. If only we played more than a game a week against a lefty, maybe Gaby could be an All Star? LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Loss of Grilli starting to become a factor.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:04 pm 
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That was subpar defense by Tabata. Aoki, miss communication. Tabata cannot run! Lol. Who's missing that point?


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:27 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
That was subpar defense by Tabata. Aoki, miss communication. Tabata cannot run! Lol. Who's missing that point?

Baloney. There aren't many left fielders who get to that ball. Starling Marte is the exception. Matt Holiday is closer to the rule for left fielders.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:37 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
That was subpar defense by Tabata. Aoki, miss communication. Tabata cannot run! Lol. Who's missing that point?

Baloney. There aren't many left fielders who get to that ball. Starling Marte is the exception. Matt Holiday is closer to the rule for left fielders.


But Tabata is a great defender, no? He's the best option for left field against a right handed pitcher? Tabata probably hits Loshe well. Not going to look that up.

Those are some big catches Tabata could've made. The young Tabata could've made.

The boy from milwaukee, in his first game at PNC, made more plays.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:40 pm 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
That was subpar defense by Tabata. Aoki, miss communication. Tabata cannot run! Lol. Who's missing that point?

Baloney. There aren't many left fielders who get to that ball. Starling Marte is the exception. Matt Holiday is closer to the rule for left fielders.


But Tabata is a great defender, no? He's the best option for left field against a right handed pitcher? Tabata probably hits Loshe well. Not going to look that up.

Those are some big catches Tabata could've made. The young Tabata could've made.

The boy from milwaukee, in his first game at PNC, made more plays.

No, Tabata is not a great defender. He's the best option to lead off, and, since Lambo was the other corner guy, the best option for left field as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:37 am 
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Tabata is an above average defender, and he gets on base, and he crushes Milwaukee pitching.

That is all.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:00 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Tabata is an above average defender, and he gets on base, and he crushes Milwaukee pitching.

That is all.

ZM


No he's not.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... F#fielding

Tabata's range has been bad in RF, and it's even worse in LF. His UZR/150 rating of the last three years: -7.3, -7.1, and 0.8. He's a liability in PNC Park's left field. In right field, he's just slightly below average.


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Right. We're using a suspect statistic for a timeframe when he was playing on hamstring injury to justify your point.

Great move.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:21 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Right. We're using a suspect statistic for a timeframe when he was playing on hamstring injury to justify your point.

Great move.

ZM


Well, we can use something as simple as a pair of eyes. I've watched Jose Tabata play defense all year long. He doesn't get good jumps (including several fly balls where he broke the wrong way), he has average speed, his arm isn't strong (though it's fairly accurate), and he's missed the cut-off man on several occasions. He's simply not a good defender. The numbers say so. My eyes say so.

What evidence do you have to suggest he is a good defender, particularly in PNC Park's left field?


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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:38 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Right. We're using a suspect statistic for a timeframe when he was playing on hamstring injury to justify your point.

Great move.

ZM


Well, we can use something as simple as a pair of eyes. I've watched Jose Tabata play defense all year long. He doesn't get good jumps (including several fly balls where he broke the wrong way), he has average speed, his arm isn't strong (though it's fairly accurate), and he's missed the cut-off man on several occasions. He's simply not a good defender. The numbers say so. My eyes say so.

What evidence do you have to suggest he is a good defender, particularly in PNC Park's left field?


Well my eyes AND my mind tell me differently. I have watched him play all year too... He has played hurt first of all. Has he made some mistakes? Yes, who hasn't? Has he made some good plays? Absolutely. To my eyes, he looks average at worst. But speaking at the point we were talking about here, the play Tuesday night was certainly NOT subpar defense. It was a tough play. He didn't make it. Marte may or may not have.

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 Post subject: Re: Weird game last night.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:00 pm 
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To me Tabata looks slow and unathletic. Almost lackadaisical. But then I'm comparing him to Cutch and Marte.


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