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 Post subject: Re: Matt Harvey Has A Torn Ligament In Elbow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
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Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
The University of Iowa football and basketball programs both generate a ton of revenue. I have personal knowledge of several instances of coaching staffs of both teams forcing players to the bench even though the players insisted being "heatlhy" enough to play.

For the most part, college baseball is a non-revenue sport but there are plenty of examples of coaches allowing the pitchers to throw until their arm nearly falls off. Just ask Ben McDonald.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Harvey Has A Torn Ligament In Elbow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Location: Tejas
I'll say this, and it could make me naive, but Jameson Taillon played his HS ball near me and was definitely a pretty big deal in the area in terms of dominance. He wasn't all projection when he went 2nd overall. That said, he was pretty well monitored at his HS and never got an overly strenuous workload. Only 70some innings over a long season, never had eye popping pitch counts, etc.

Granted, the Woodlands has a great baseball program so it might make it easier to spread out the workload but aside from Bundy there was never a whole lot of workload concerns among recent HS pitchers it seemed. So I was kind of optimistic, based on seeing how Taillon was handled, that teams had sort of wised up to the whole overuse thing.

College is a bit tougher, to be certain. But I think you just kind of hope that eventually kids start to stray away from schools like Stanford and UNC. Great college programs, but man do scouts hate them.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Harvey Has A Torn Ligament In Elbow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:23 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
But I think you just kind of hope that eventually kids start to stray away from schools like Stanford and UNC. Great college programs, but man do scouts hate them.


College kid stray away from a full-ride to either of those institutions? You better be dang sure that you are going to have a meaningful professional career to tell Stanford or UNC "no."

If I was advising a promising high school pitching prospect, I'd advise him to negotitate a "you'll pay for my college education" clause into the contract when he signs out of high school. Its my understanding that those clauses are not uncommon for those who are promising prospects.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Harvey Has A Torn Ligament In Elbow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Location: Tejas
I believe that's pretty much a formality, with the college thing.

And was also kind of operating under the assumption that a kid good enough to have offers from UNC and Stanford could play about anywhere they wanted and had a great shot to make the majors. Don't really mind UNC for hitters but between Harvey, Miller, and the abuse that Kent Emmanuel was forced into this year...it's a big red flag for pitchers I think. Just feels like when a school like Vanderbilt, Rice, or UCLA (and possibly UVA) offer similarly spectacular educations with a strong record of positive player development, kids can stray away from the more outdated methods of coaching while sacrificing very little.

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 Post subject: Re: Matt Harvey Has A Torn Ligament In Elbow
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:27 am
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Location: Eastern Shore
ZelieMike wrote:
There is nothing inherently wrong with pressure to win. It is when a coach knowingly abuses a kid to win that the problem occurs. Today's baseball coaches know that having a HS or college pitcher throwing 110-120 pitches and giving them a couple days rest between will ultimately hurt that kids arm. That has nothing to do with parent's watching, and in fact, a watching parent might save that pitcher from long term damage.

That is quite different than teaching the kid how to block and tackle correctly and playing to win the game knowing that there is inherent risk in that sport. If we use inherent risk to call out a game, say football, then I call for the abolition of sports since all have inherent risks. Can't have a kid getting concussions from headers, you know.

ZM

I would like to live in your world, I think.

I've come to the belief that there is something inherently wrong with the pressure to win. There are a lot of coaches who seem to have the inability to buck this pressure, because, well everyone loves a winner and we are promoting and hyping kids at ever younger ages. Here's a high schooler who made the front page of ESPN.



I have a friend who knows a guy who's in a fantasy football high school league!

There are lots of well meaning coaches who have trouble handling this kind of pressure.


Oh, and headers don't cause concussions in soccer. Falling causes the vast majority of concussions in soccer.


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