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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Well, if the Pirates acquired Marlon Byrd and John Buck, as reported by ESPN, this discussion is pretty much moot.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Why? What if I want pie AND cake?


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Jones is a perennial tinkerer, and overthinker in the Morton mold. He has tinkered himself into this slump. He can still tinker, or maybe zen hypnosis, himself out of it.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:40 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Jones is a perennial tinkerer, and overthinker in the Morton mold. He has tinkered himself into this slump. He can still tinker, or maybe zen hypnosis, himself out of it.

ZM


You've been watching him this year, right? It's not his mechanics so much as his pitch recognition. He's cheating, starting his swing early, and hacking at bad pitches in the dirt. That hasn't stopped, which has led to a career high K%.

His August and post-All Star break numbers have fallen off the table. How long can the Pirates -- in the middle of a pennant chase -- afford to send out a first baseman who can't hit at all? Answer: not long.

Gaby Sanchez is starting at 1B tonight against a RHP.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:44 pm 
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Yes I have, and his current "eye" is the result of confidence lost, which is the result of ... "tinkering" too much.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:49 pm 
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I'm pretty sure Gaby has good career numbers against Lohse, no? It was during an earlier Brewers series that it came out about how the Pirates have numbers for guys based off of pitcher arm slots and comparable pitchers and I thought Lohse was a guy who Gaby had favorable numbers against.

It was one of those "screw Hurdle!" moments and then it came out that their printout said to play Gaby.

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:27 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
His August batting line is now .121/.224/.276, and his post-All Star break line is .188/.269/.385. At some point, you gotta pull the plug.

July OPS:
Jones - .804, Morneau - .596

August OPS:
Jones - .500, Morneau - .868

September OPS:
A coin toss. I see no reason, not a single one, to believe that Morneau and Jones will both continue to hit the same in September as they did in August.

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Maybe his pretty little wife can help him.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:20 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
His August batting line is now .121/.224/.276, and his post-All Star break line is .188/.269/.385. At some point, you gotta pull the plug.

July OPS:
Jones - .804, Morneau - .596

August OPS:
Jones - .500, Morneau - .868

September OPS:
A coin toss. I see no reason, not a single one, to believe that Morneau and Jones will both continue to hit the same in September as they did in August.


Agreed but what about April, May and June?

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:09 pm 
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If they pick up Moreau, you might have seen the last of jones.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:59 am 
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Jones and G. Sanchez are two BIG reasons why this offense is weak. Combine that with the fact the Pirates have "marginal players in RF, it's no wonder why the Pirate offense is what it is...spotty at best.

Last night, Jones comes to the plate with runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. In a game where runs were at a high premium, what does he do? He can't even get a sac fly. He pops up to shallow RF. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

Then add Hurdle's decision to keep Morris in the game when he clearly couldn't shut down the inning, Morris proceeds to give up the go-ahead run. A run created by a Stolen Base and a Sac Fly. Some small ball the Pirates couldn't accomplish.

A bad baseball game by the Bucs who better right this ship fast!

PS: I hope Marlon Byrd can make a difference!

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:19 am 
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Gaby is FAR from a reason why the offense is weak. The guy is performing in his intended role- to hit LHP- with flying colors. If Jones was holding up his end of the platoon, Gaby wouldn't have anywhere near 183 AB against RHP and the perception that he's performing poorly wouldn't exist.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:22 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
His August batting line is now .121/.224/.276, and his post-All Star break line is .188/.269/.385. At some point, you gotta pull the plug.

July OPS:
Jones - .804, Morneau - .596

August OPS:
Jones - .500, Morneau - .868

September OPS:
A coin toss. I see no reason, not a single one, to believe that Morneau and Jones will both continue to hit the same in September as they did in August.


Look at the full 2013 season's worth of numbers and you'll see that Morneau has significantly out-performed Jones against RHP in average, OBP, and slugging percentage.

Acccordingly, I have five months of data suggesting that Morneau has been and will be a better player than Jones for the balance of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:44 am 
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I wonder if Buck will be offered as to fill in for Mauer for the year's balance.

Even if I take it that Jones and Morneau may well be a wash at the plate, I know I can count on Morneau to be a significant defensive upgrade, and before anyone tells me that defense at first is minimal, just watch the next time Jones throws a double play ball into left field.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:01 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I know I can count on Morneau to be a significant defensive upgrade, and before anyone tells me that defense at first is minimal, just watch the next time Jones throws a double play ball into left field.

ZM


Or has a ground ball carom off of his glove . . . the guy's a mental mess right now. I don't know if its the pressure of the playoff run or whether he isn't responding well to the "Barbarians at the Gate," but he's a liability on the field and at the plate.

Seems like a good guy, I feel badly for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:42 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Gaby is FAR from a reason why the offense is weak. The guy is performing in his intended role- to hit LHP- with flying colors. If Jones was holding up his end of the platoon, Gaby wouldn't have anywhere near 183 AB against RHP and the perception that he's performing poorly wouldn't exist.


August 28th and people still don't get this. It's like they forget or simply choose to ignore the purpose of platoons. Gaby's job is to platoon with Jones and hit LHP. He has posted a .958 OPS against LHP on the year. Not to mention his team-leading 13.8% BB rate. He has performed his job excellently. The fact that his platoon partner has been awful or that the manager has given him too many ABs with the platoon disadvantage facing RHP are completely out of his control.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:29 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
JollyRoger wrote:
Gaby is FAR from a reason why the offense is weak. The guy is performing in his intended role- to hit LHP- with flying colors. If Jones was holding up his end of the platoon, Gaby wouldn't have anywhere near 183 AB against RHP and the perception that he's performing poorly wouldn't exist.


August 28th and people still don't get this. It's like they forget or simply choose to ignore the purpose of platoons. Gaby's job is to platoon with Jones and hit LHP. He has posted a .958 OPS against LHP on the year. Not to mention his team-leading 13.8% BB rate. He has performed his job excellently. The fact that his platoon partner has been awful or that the manager has given him too many ABs with the platoon disadvantage facing RHP are completely out of his control.


I'm not that impressed with G. Sanchez. The guy is making $1,750,000.00
Here are his stats. If you think he is doing a good job, you're entitled to your opinions. I don't think he brings much to the table and that applies to his platoon situation. And, most pitchers are right handed aren't they? In a very limited role, even if Jones was holding up his end of the bargain (which he miserably isn't), Sanchez's bat is not that great....IMHO. His defense at 1B is good but that's about it...IMHO...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/29270/gaby-sanchez

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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:50 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
I'm not that impressed with G. Sanchez. The guy is making $1,750,000.00
Here are his stats. If you think he is doing a good job, you're entitled to your opinions. I don't think he brings much to the table and that applies to his platoon situation. And, most pitchers are right handed aren't they? In a very limited role, even if Jones was holding up his end of the bargain (which he miserably isn't), Sanchez's bat is not that great....IMHO. His defense at 1B is good but that's about it...IMHO...


Sorry but I'm just struggling to see how any of this makes any sense or isn't just objectively false. Saying you simply don't like him or you think he makes too much money is one thing. As for the rest ...

If you say he "doesn't bring much to the table, and that applies to his platoon situation" or that his bat isn't great even if Jones was hitting RHP well, then please explain how any of that is warranted. As I posted, he has a .958 OPS against LHP with only a month left in the season (consistent with .886 on his career). He has hit lefties extremely well. So like I said, please explain your previous two comments that he doesn't have a great bat in his platoon situation and that that .958 wouldn't matter even if Jones was hitting RHP well. Let's say Jones had posted an OPS of .828 against RHP like he did last year. Then Gaby's hitting against LHP doesn't matter? How does that make any sense?

Yes, LHP is the short end of the platoon. So what? Would you rather forfeit those 150 PAs over the season by giving them to Jones and his career .574 against LHP? It's pointless to try to diminish it in such ways. If you have a player who hits lefties worse than a utility infielder (Jones), you can get a lot of production by supplementing that with a player who hits LHP extremely well exclusively. Choosing to criticize the short end platoon player who is doing his job excellently because he handles the short end of the platoon while the one facing RHP is performing terribly is completely arbitrary and contrived.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Garrett Jones's at bat last night with runners on the corners and one out was maddening. He gets ahead 3-1, then takes a nine iron swing at a borderline low pitch, popping it up to shallow center field. It seems he is powerless to lay off the low ball, whether it's a breaking ball or a fastball.


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 Post subject: Re: Garrett Jones
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Shark, if you want to defend Sanchez go right ahead. I know I would not want him at the plate in a critical situation. I've wanted him to drive in many runs over the course of the season with runners in scoring position and he's failed.

If you want to defend him because he supposedly hits better against LHP, fine. And I'll end this back and forth with a few questions. When was the last time Sanchez drove in a run against a LHP? Further, how many runs has Sanchez driven in against LH Pitchers? And, did those runs make a difference in the games he did manage to drive in? I would venture to say, if you decide to do the research and find the answers to my questions (you can, I'm too lazy :D ), you probably won't be that impressed.

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