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 Post subject: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Recalling memories of J.D. Drew, the St, Paul Saints today announced the signing of Pittsburgh Pirates 2008 second round draft pick right-handed pitcher Tanner Scheppers.


Quote:
After being drafted by the Pirates, Scheppers threw for the Pirates at PNC Park to show he was fully recovered, but the two sides couldn’t agree on a contract.

“I’m really excited to start my baseball career especially with such a great organization,” said Scheppers. “I think it’s a great fit for me. I’ve heard nothing but great things.”


http://saintsbaseball.com/news/saintsne ... cle_id=903

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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Drew was a position player. A risky play for a pitcher coming off of shoulder problems. Although if he excels for the Saints he'll probably make a nice chunk of change via next year's draft. Wonder how much the Bucs offered?


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:21 pm 
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I just don't get this kid. ASSUMING he is healthy and has a good year in the independent leagues, he has a shot to get taken in the first round, but I would say it is highly HIGHLY unlikely he goes in the top 10. Considering the Pirates were offering him 1st round money, what did he have to gain? He wanted top 10 money, but I can't see him getting it by holding out and playing for St. Paul.

And the risk that he is taking- suppose that he isn't healthy, or maybe just needs the better part of the season to get his command back or is otherwise ineffective- there's no way he sees the top 2 rounds of the draft, and he loses out on the first round money the Pirates offered him.

I wish him all the best, but I think he made a mistake. He is no Aaron Crow.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:23 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Considering the Pirates were offering him 1st round money, what did he have to gain?


Are you sure they were offering first round money? I thought he wanted first round money even though he went in the second? My memory could be wrong though.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
BBF wrote:
Considering the Pirates were offering him 1st round money, what did he have to gain?


Are you sure they were offering first round money? I thought he wanted first round money even though he went in the second? My memory could be wrong though.


No, I am pretty sure it was 1st round money. I think he WANTED top 10 money. I'll have to try and find a link to be sure, but considering he was the 2nd pick in the 2nd round, and the offer was above slot, that pretty much means it had to be 1st round money.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:41 pm 
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I think Scheppers was offered less an a million, which is more in line with a second rounder.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
I think Scheppers was offered less an a million, which is more in line with a second rounder.


Well, for reference, slot for pick #48 was $809,000 and slot for pick #10 was $2.07 mil. So even if we only offered him slot money, he basically is risking all of this for a difference of what...$1 mil? Foolish gamble, IMO, even if NH only offered slot.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:24 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Argentum wrote:
I think Scheppers was offered less an a million, which is more in line with a second rounder.


Well, for reference, slot for pick #48 was $809,000 and slot for pick #10 was $2.07 mil. So even if we only offered him slot money, he basically is risking all of this for a difference of what...$1 mil? Foolish gamble, IMO, even if NH only offered slot.


I'm not quibbling over the amount, he turned down good coin no matter what, and I do agree that he's taking a foolish gamble.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:11 pm 
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From what I read... and I will try and dig it up... Tanner was not healthy, he couldn't throw a breaking pitch without discomfort. The Pirates balked at his request for top 10 money and offered him I think 2nd round slot money.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Good luck to him...He will have nothing to fall back on if he were to get hurt or cant pitch effectively after his arm problems. Atleast the draft pick money would have helped pay for his last year of college if he'd have not made it as a pro...

If he does get drafted and becomes something in the Majors, do you think Pirate fans will treat him the same way Drew was treated in Philly?

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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:39 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:

If he does get drafted and becomes something in the Majors, do you think Pirate fans will treat him the same way Drew was treated in Philly?


I tend to think that there are so few Pirates fans paying close enough attention to who Scheppers is that it won't matter. I also think that because it wasn't a 1st round pick, there won't be as much publicity over it. Many players re-enter the draft in later rounds. Big deals are typically only made over 1st rounders, it seems.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:53 pm 
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HIs fastball was barely breaking 80.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:59 pm 
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This reminds me a lot of the Luke Hochevar situation a few years back where he held out and was drafted #1 overall (by the roayls) the next year after playing for the Fort Worth Cats. Hochevar did not have any injuries (i dont think), but only started 4 games. I did not understand why his stock rose so much in 1 year in which he hardly even played. If Scheppers maybe can do the same and prove he is healthy, he figures he can get drafted top 10 by someone and make the big $.

Many sites are thinking he is pretty high on the list for this draft, but we will see
http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft-2009
#6 to the giants
http://www.mlbdraftsite.com/
#18 to florida

I am glad we didnt bite on this guy's demands if he wasn't healthy. Heck, we can always draft him again if we think that highly of him and we got another #2 pick out of it. Win-win for our front office.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:04 pm 
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urbanexplorer wrote:
This reminds me a lot of the Luke Hochevar situation a few years back where he held out and was drafted #1 overall (by the roayls) the next year after playing for the Fort Worth Cats. Hochevar did not have any injuries (i dont think), but only started 4 games. I did not understand why his stock rose so much in 1 year in which he hardly even played. If Scheppers maybe can do the same and prove he is healthy, he figures he can get drafted top 10 by someone and make the big $.

Many sites are thinking he is pretty high on the list for this draft, but we will see
http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft-2009
#6 to the giants
http://www.mlbdraftsite.com/
#18 to florida

I am glad we didnt bite on this guy's demands if he wasn't healthy. Heck, we can always draft him again if we think that highly of him and we got another #2 pick out of it. Win-win for our front office.


IF he is healthy and shows decent stuff, he will probably go mid-1st round (15-20). But even if he is available, the Pirates are not permitted to select him without approval from Schepper and his agent.

And looking at that 2nd link you gave, there is no way Grant Green falls past the Pirates (I hope). I doubt we even have a chance to get him.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:05 pm 
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urbanexplorer wrote:
I am glad we didnt bite on this guy's demands if he wasn't healthy. Heck, we can always draft him again if we think that highly of him and we got another #2 pick out of it. Win-win for our front office.


I'd like to see a possible 1st round replacement for Freddy or Jack, but I doubt there's any real top draft pick 2nd Baseman or SS out there...

But with the #2 pick I'd like to see the Pirates take the #1 or #2 best player available...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:09 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
urbanexplorer wrote:
I am glad we didnt bite on this guy's demands if he wasn't healthy. Heck, we can always draft him again if we think that highly of him and we got another #2 pick out of it. Win-win for our front office.


I'd like to see a possible 1st round replacement for Freddy or Jack, but I doubt there's any real top draft pick 2nd Baseman or SS out there...

But with the #2 pick I'd like to see the Pirates take the #1 or #2 best player available...


We have the 4th pick. I think UE was referring to a compensatory 2nd round pick, which should be the 3rd pick in that round, meaning we will have the 4th overall, then the 3rd and 5th picks of the 2nd round. And I think Grant Green would be the perfect replacement for Jack if he is still available at #4. I'd be surprised if he falls to us though.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:16 pm 
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BBF wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
urbanexplorer wrote:
I am glad we didnt bite on this guy's demands if he wasn't healthy. Heck, we can always draft him again if we think that highly of him and we got another #2 pick out of it. Win-win for our front office.


I'd like to see a possible 1st round replacement for Freddy or Jack, but I doubt there's any real top draft pick 2nd Baseman or SS out there...

But with the #2 pick I'd like to see the Pirates take the #1 or #2 best player available...


We have the 4th pick. I think UE was referring to a compensatory 2nd round pick, which should be the 3rd pick in that round, meaning we will have the 4th overall, then the 3rd and 5th picks of the 2nd round. And I think Grant Green would be the perfect replacement for Jack if he is still available at #4. I'd be surprised if he falls to us though.


My bad...anyway I'd like to see the best player available be picked, but would prefer if he were a middle infielder...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:36 pm 
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We'd better start getting some pitchers or 2011 will look alot like 2008. Yeah, I know, Lincoln and Morris. I remember a few years ago when it looked like we had an abundance of pitching talent in the minors. You can never have enough eggs in this particular basket.

I understand the thought process behind the Scheppers draft selection, a possible steal. But for a team in our position, the luxury of taking that risk just wasnt available. It was a dumb move and set us back.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Kingston wrote:

I understand the thought process behind the Scheppers draft selection, a possible steal. But for a team in our position, the luxury of taking that risk just wasnt available. It was a dumb move and set us back.


Not sure I follow how that sets us back. We get an extra second round draft pick this year to make up for it, so if we decide we have to take some safe pitchers, I'm sure they will be available. I think we are far enough away from competing that it won't matter, quite frankly. Also, by not signing Scheppers, money was available to sign Quenton Miller, a high upside pitcher that we paid dearly for to keep him from going to college.


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 Post subject: Re: Tanner Scheppers Is Independent
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:47 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Kingston wrote:

I understand the thought process behind the Scheppers draft selection, a possible steal. But for a team in our position, the luxury of taking that risk just wasnt available. It was a dumb move and set us back.


Not sure I follow how that sets us back. We get an extra second round draft pick this year to make up for it, so if we decide we have to take some safe pitchers, I'm sure they will be available. I think we are far enough away from competing that it won't matter, quite frankly. Also, by not signing Scheppers, money was available to sign Quenton Miller, a high upside pitcher that we paid dearly for to keep him from going to college.


Well first, given that all worlds need to align themselves so perfectly for us down the road, even giving up one year of some pitcher's development is a set back... also, I can just see Nutting shelling out above slot for 3 guys drafted in the top 2 rounds in the same draft. As for Miller, money was available for 10 Millers, except for an unwillingness to spend.


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