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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Also, I think this season is a testament to the fact that good pitching beats good hitting every. single. time.


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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:31 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Also, I think this season is a testament to the fact that good pitching beats good hitting every. single. time.


We're officially past the steroid era. Pitching is about as dominant as it has been in a long time. Not just this year, last year and the year before were dominated by pitching as well.

I think the fact that pretty much every comprehensive statistic holds the offense in relatively positive regard, yet it remains seen as poor, is an example of that. Relative to the rest of baseball, it's a solid offense. There aren't many offensive juggernauts anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
Well how dare we be critical?

I'm not as extreme as boro, but 20 years of losing will do that to you.

I'm very happy for the pirates success. Proudly sporting my pirates gear. Some kid came up to me at the bank yesterday. He was like , finally you can sport that proudly after 50 straight years of losing! I was like its only been 20 years. He said all I know is they haven't won anything in my lifetime. Made me realize how a generation of people have never seen the pirates win.

I remember 1992 like it was yesterday. When the Cabrera play happened I was working second shift. I went on my break turned on my car radio and the pirates were winning 2-0 in the 8th. I was like buccos going to the world series! Comeback after my shift was over, hear the. Crowd screaming. I was like what happened! Then the announcer goes, Atlanta wins it! I was sopissed. Thought I'd wreck my car driving home.

But just because some of us can't always paint a bed of roses doesn't make us any less of fans. Some of us can see kinks in the armor.



For the millionth time. You can be as critical as you want and post things that others think are shortsighted or just plain wrong and then THEY CAN TELL YOU THIS.

You can say Gaby Sanchaz sucks and shouldn't be in in that part of the game. AND THEN, get this, PEOPLE CAN TELL YOU HOW HE'S HIT LEFTIES AND SAY A LEFTY WAS PITCHING. Then you can disagree and yell and call people liberals and say soldiers died for you to post drivel and hey, no one gets arrested. You can say that you don't think the Pirates want to win because they lost a major league baseball game and grounded into double plays, and I can say that I believe that thought it asinine. They, instead of taking the easy way out and striking out, purposely grounded hard up the middle into a DP?

No one said you're any less of a fan. I just think that the majority of the stuff you post is reactionary, negative and, well, closer to wrong than right. Which I am allowed to do. How dare somebody criticize you or respond to you in anything other than agreement? That's basically what you are saying. Wow, you can see the kinks in the armor. Yeah, everybody can. Every team has chinks in the armor. If you are saying "not every Pirates player is the best at their position in MLB", well, yeah, can't argue that.

People have the right to be tired of your reactionary, negative drivel. You never post anything suggesting what you think they should do or why you think a move was wrong or right. Just "why do that Hurdle look what happened". But keep thinking you're some kind of victim for posting biting reality that only you are able to realize.

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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:32 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Clevelandsux wrote:
Some of us can see kinks in the armor.


We all see them. We just don't point them out every time they happen (not singling you out, just saying).

Baseball is a games where, on an individual level, a 70% failure rate is success. As a team, a slightly below 50% failure rate is successful.

It's obvious, perhaps even semi-justifiable, that the 20-years losing streak and the last two seasons' second half collapses have exacerbated the situation, but...

Expecting to win all 162 games is nothing short of insanity (for a myriad of reasons).

With very rare and particularly notable exception, every team loses 54 games.

At least 11 more are coming; accept it.



If Clevelandsux were a Cardinal fan he would still be complaining about losing 2 of 3 to the Marlins in June and then would have murdered a drifter after dropping 7 straight, 4 of them to the Pirates.

Do you realize that? THE CARDINALS HAD JUST LOST 7 STRAIGHT MOTHERF-ING GAMES.

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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:55 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:
I understand all of that NS. The problem I have is HOW they lose games. I'm of the opinion that this Pirate team gets beat mostly because they are offensively challenged. And, the Pirate excellent pitching shouldn't be expected to last through August and September (although hopes that the pitching will still remain solid).

It's the offense that needs to score runs to help out their pitchers. Players like G. Sanchez, Tabata, Jones, Presley, Harrison, and Barmes are failing to drive in runs and or get on base to the extent that should expected of a playoff team. Add on top of that Pedro's and Marte's cold AB's at the plate leaves much room for doubt that this offense can deliver down the stretch...in my opinion. Like I said before, I hope they prove me wrong...really I do!


But that's to be expected, isn't it? At this point we know what we're getting with the team and a lot of that has to do with NH's approach since he came to the Pirates. His focus has been on pitching and now that there is a ton of organizational depth and success at the ML level with the pitching, the organizational hitting is beginning to become the focus and/or pick up.

The 2013 draft was the first in which the Pirates haven't taken at least one pitcher with the top two picks. To me that points to a wealth of confidence in where the organization is with pitching and a focus on the hitting going forward.

If the single season is a marathon, then building the organization from where it was in 2007 is like three consecutive ironman triathlons and the organization MAY be at the end of the second.


Agreed.

Cole, Taillon, Kingham, Glasnow, Pimentel, and Heredia. Does ANY other organization have that kind of starter-potential pitching prospect depth? I doubt it. The list gets even longer when you start talking about guys that could be really good relievers for the Buccos.

It's also true that our big time hitting prospects can be summed up in Polanco and Bell. If Dickerson can continue to hit and develop power, you might be able to throw him in. A bit early to say what we have in the newly-drafted, but Meadows looks solid and McGuire seems to be coming around. I think I've given up on Allie; I would be surprised if he develops into a major leaguer, honestly.


We also need to be mindful that Starling Marte is still developing as a major leaguer, and even though he's a bit wild at the plate, he's STILL hitting .280.


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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:07 pm 
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I think Herrera and Hanson are strong bats for middle infielders. Barrett Barnes has been solid when healthy as well and Harold Ramirez is tearing up NYPL as an 18 year old.

Early returns on Meadows and McGuire are certainly promising. Meadows really turned it around after a slow start. But, they are pretty young. For a guy who had some bat questions, Meadows is slightly outperforming Frazier at this point, who was viewed as more polished coming out of HS.

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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:23 pm 
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In order to beat the rockies the bucs will have to score. Rockies, despite their record are offensively loaded. Even with the injuries. Have to score this series. Ain't gonna be 1-0 games.


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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:05 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
I understand all of that NS. The problem I have is HOW they lose games. I'm of the opinion that this Pirate team gets beat mostly because they are offensively challenged.


Pretty much.

Then again, if they lose the same way so often, doesn't it become so obvious that it doesn't need to be said over and over and over?

Granted, it's frustrating to see them fail the same way(s) over and over, but...

If the Bucs were a mere ten games over, the 'worries' would be more understandable.

It just seems like we should be glad the Bucs are 20 over after 20 years (at least 18 of them nowhere near as good as the last three) of futility.

So, agreed that maybe the Bucs don't have the brightest outlook re: WS aspirations this year, but even that's not for certain (who knows how things will break?) and even if it is things are still pretty copacetic.

bassoondirector wrote:
And, the Pirate excellent pitching shouldn't be expected to last through August and September (although hopes that the pitching will still remain solid).


Absolutely.

bassoondirector wrote:
It's the offense that needs to score runs to help out their pitchers. Players like G. Sanchez, Tabata, Jones, Presley, Harrison, and Barmes are failing to drive in runs and or get on base to the extent that should expected of a playoff team. Add on top of that Pedro's and Marte's cold AB's at the plate leaves much room for doubt that this offense can deliver down the stretch...in my opinion. Like I said before, I hope they prove me wrong...really I do!


Every team has 'weak links'. Every player, even the best of them, go through lulls. It sucks when they're compounded, but it happens.

By the looks of the Pirates record, they've been proving all doubters and even 'lukewarm' fans wrong all year long thus far.

All of this is not to say critique is impossible. The Bucs are worthy of certain criticisms.

It's just that we'd expect the Bucs do 'shake things off' and 'go and do better tomorrow', so why not us fans, too?

Gotta keep a positive mindset. Can't let the losing, the seemingly endless decades of losing, breed a losing mindset. Must perservere, overcome, be resilient.

Try and be your own karma; if you say something negative, try and find something positive. Maybe it doesn't help, but it beats feeling sorry for one's self.

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 Post subject: Re: August 2, 2013 Rockies (51-59) at Pirates (65-43)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:19 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
When it's 4 straight wins, they can't be beaten. When it's a couple of losses, the team is falling apart. Sheesh. Take a deep breath, people.



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