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 Post subject: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:38 pm 
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The rich get richer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:20 pm 
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Im guessing Manny just dropped his teeth.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:44 pm 
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Boy I hope they get the $150 million from the taxpayers for that new stadium. They sure deserve it/need it.

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:52 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Boy I hope they get the $150 million from the taxpayers for that new stadium. They sure deserve it/need it.


Right. Next, taxpayers will be bailing out Caesars Palace.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:39 am 
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I like how Charlie put it on his blog ... title: "Yankees give Teixeira a Gajillion dollars". Article: Whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Great- more luxury tax money for us. Big whoop...


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:42 pm 
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I'm so turned off on baseball right now. I've always maintained that with sports it's important to have a level playing field for all teams. It's what makes sports enjoyable for the masses. I know that's not how real life works and a lot of people are against salary caps and floors, etc. Unless you're a Yankee fan today I don't know how you can say that. And I'm not just talking as a Pirate fan. With every good free agent that comes up in discussion it's the same thing...Yankees or Red Sox? They throw in the Angels and Dodgers for good measure, or maybe occasionally the Braves, and as a joke(I assume) the Nationals. But even the Angels and Dodgers aren't able to spend enough to get these guys. It's completely ridiculous! And the small and middle market owners continue to let this happen without a flinch. McClatchy and the gang at the last labor negotiation just nodded blissfully as they were getting railroaded once again.

Sure every team(if properly managed) has a window of opportunity, but wouldn't it be nice if everyone's window had closer to the same opening as others. Is it any wonder why football is the most popular sport???


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:28 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Great- more luxury tax money for us. Big whoop...


Don't think so. Under the Basic Agreement, aren't franchises that open new stadiums entitled to a two-year exemption from paying the luxury tax? That is, if their payrolls are large enough to put them in the payer category to begin with.

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, the Mets also escape for the same reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:49 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
Great- more luxury tax money for us. Big whoop...


Don't think so. Under the Basic Agreement, aren't franchises that open new stadiums entitled to a two-year exemption from paying the luxury tax? That is, if their payrolls are large enough to put them in the payer category to begin with.

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, the Mets also escape for the same reason.


An article in the Post-Gazette said the Yankees are being hit for $26.9 Mill Luxuary Tax bill

Quote:
Teixeira's agreement came a day after the Yankees received a $26.9 million luxury tax bill for 2008, when their streak of 13 consecutive playoff appearances ended. But with the revenue from their new stadium, where tickets are priced at up to $2,500 per game, their appetite for free agents wasn't diminished.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08359/937373-63.stm

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:21 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
An article in the Post-Gazette said the Yankees are being hit for $26.9 Mill Luxuary Tax bill.


That was for 2008. They will pay less luxury tax for 2009, due to the following:

"MLB's Basic Agreement. According to Article XXIV, Section a(5) of the 2002 collective bargaining agreement, teams must make revenue-sharing payments on all baseball revenue, but can deduct 'the 'Stadium Operations Expenses' of each Club, as reported on an annual basis in the Club's FIQ [Financial Information Questionnaire].'"

The amount to be deducted will be based on the method of financing. I understand that the Yankee owner(s) obtained loans in the amount of $750 million to pay for the new stadium. They can deduct the annual re-payment expenditure from their revenues, which is something in the area of $20 million per year as a write-off on their "revenue sharing" (luxury tax).

Since the Yanks paid $27 million this year, even if they write off the $20 million, they will still owe. And given the huge salaries paid out to Sabathia, Burnett and Texiera, the amount owed will increase quite a bit - but will be lessened by tens of millions of dollars based on expenditure for the new stadium.

I am not sure if there is a 2-year "grace period" when a team builds its own stadium. I have not found anything to answer that question one way or another.

I just finished a discussion at lunch with co-workers who do not believe that baseball is in any "trouble." I opined that baseball is in trouble right now, apart from maybe 6 franchises (Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Dodgers, Cubs).

The debate raged for quite a while. I finally said that I have followed baseball all my life, that baseball was my preference over football as a kid, that I attend 5-8 games per year, that I have purchased partial season tickets for a franchise that I do not root for (Dodgers), but all that is ending.

I am tired of professional baseball. The payroll disparity is out of control. It is absurd that some teams get $220 million per year for their TV and cable deals, while others get 1/10th of that amount.

No salary cap. No payroll limitations. No true profit sharing. No payroll balance. And less competitive balance.

I am beginning to sound like Bullish. Every big money free agent will get offers from Yanks, Mets, Red Sux, Cubs, Dodgers, and/or Angels.

Meanwhile, the Pirates are pursuing Ramon Vazquez and Jerry Hairston, Jr. I just do not care any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:02 am 
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Can anyone say Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano?

The Steinbrenners have been trying to spend their way to a World Series title since 2001 and so far all they've gotten is a lot of wasted money and various degrees of embarrassment. Jason Giambi was the hottest thing since sliced bread when the Bombers brought him and his massive biceps from the Bay to the Big Apple. They thought they were better a younger version of Mark McGwire and what they ended up getting was, well, the older version of Mark McGwire (and not in the good home run hitting way but in the steroid shooting embarrassing way). Carl Pavano was supposed to be a solid front end of the rotation guy, but he saw more of the training room at Yankees Stadium then he saw of the mound.


Now we have Mark Texiera, a guy with questions about his wheel and who's never had to play in a pressure cooker like New York, or even the AL East. And then you get to add on to that AJ Burnett, that tattooed wonder with serious injury issues. Maybe it's all that ink and the Manson music that's keeping him from spending a full year healthy.

But even if these guys all have good years, the Yanks are still third best in that division. None of them can play the outfield, where they have a lot of old bodies and a lot of question marks. And Burnett and Sabathia need to pitch 8 innings a night because the Bombers middle relief is in shambles.

Look for the BoSox to pull the trigger on Adam Dunn in the next few days to counter the Tex signing. They could also put a serious move on Derek Lowe to counter Burnett. And remember that Sabathia is nothing more than a counter to Dice K.

Unless the D Rays and BoSox have some injuries, the Bombers will still have to scrap to be in the playoff picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:20 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
Can anyone say Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano?

The Steinbrenners have been trying to spend their way to a World Series title since 2001 and so far all they've gotten is a lot of wasted money and various degrees of embarrassment. Jason Giambi was the hottest thing since sliced bread when the Bombers brought him and his massive biceps from the Bay to the Big Apple. They thought they were better a younger version of Mark McGwire and what they ended up getting was, well, the older version of Mark McGwire (and not in the good home run hitting way but in the steroid shooting embarrassing way). Carl Pavano was supposed to be a solid front end of the rotation guy, but he saw more of the training room at Yankees Stadium then he saw of the mound.


Now we have Mark Texiera, a guy with questions about his wheel and who's never had to play in a pressure cooker like New York, or even the AL East. And then you get to add on to that AJ Burnett, that tattooed wonder with serious injury issues. Maybe it's all that ink and the Manson music that's keeping him from spending a full year healthy.

But even if these guys all have good years, the Yanks are still third best in that division. None of them can play the outfield, where they have a lot of old bodies and a lot of question marks. And Burnett and Sabathia need to pitch 8 innings a night because the Bombers middle relief is in shambles.

Look for the BoSox to pull the trigger on Adam Dunn in the next few days to counter the Tex signing. They could also put a serious move on Derek Lowe to counter Burnett. And remember that Sabathia is nothing more than a counter to Dice K.

Unless the D Rays and BoSox have some injuries, the Bombers will still have to scrap to be in the playoff picture.




Amen---thank you.

While I think the Yankees are going to be better than you seem to, I am glad to see some cool heads. While the Yanks are assembling a nice collection of players, let's not cry "armageddon" just yet. There have been a lot of articles (from places like Baltimore--go figure) that say "baseball needs a salary cap." I will repeat my stance on this issue. A salary cap would be nice, but the impact of a salary cap is drastically overrated. It hasn't stopped the NBA from only producing 7 different champs since 1983. It hasn't stopped the Patriots from going 111-32 --including playoffs-- since 2001 (or helped the Lions avoid a 31-96 stretch in that time).

The Yankees do this. They always do this. The sun will come up tomorrow and baseball will continue to be fine.


Plus, you mentioned Carl Pavano and Jason Giambi, what about another guy across NY---Carlos Beltran. The Mets were supposed to be penciled in for 4 straight pennants when they inked him.

No matter who has the superstars, let them play the game on the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:54 am 
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1. The Yankees do it because they can. I hate it because I am baseball purist, but if the Pirates could do it, wouldn't you want them to?

2. As far as it being wasted money, when you have that much, does it really matter? The Yankees went on their World Series runs because of their core which was their farm system. They really didn't buy those championships. They haven't learned that and continue to spend because they have to. Everyone knows they have the money. What if the Steinbrenners just pocketed the money and did a $100 million payroll. Isn't that what Pirates fan complain about with the Nuttings and we really don't know how much they really have? The problem isn't the Yankees. It's the system.

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:49 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
1. The Yankees do it because they can. I hate it because I am baseball purist, but if the Pirates could do it, wouldn't you want them to?


Honestly? No.

Dont get me wrong. I would love to see the Bucs somehow enter that grey area of spending where most teams live. That keeps the playing field level.

But if the Yanks go far beyond that, then so what if they win? They bought it. Yankee fans tend to ignore this little tidbit, hiding behind the fact that the Steinbrenners are well within their rights to buy a championship. And yes, they are. Its baseballs fault for the system in place. True. But wheres the satisfaction when every advantage is bought and paid for?

Fans just like to win, and who can blame them? But if youre a Yankee fan and youre honest with yourself, youd eventually have to ask yourself what youve really won. If it was me, id have to say "not much".


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:55 pm 
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As much as I hate the Yankees for it, I wouldn't have a problem if the Pirates had the means to do it and did it...

but sometimes you got to use the philosophy I've learned from the 'Rocky' movies and go Rocky IV all over Ivan Drago's ass (The Yanks)

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:04 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:

the philosophy I've learned from the 'Rocky' movies


Theres a phrase you dont see used every day. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Kingston wrote:
nad69dan wrote:

the philosophy I've learned from the 'Rocky' movies


Theres a phrase you dont see used every day. :)


Most of life's problems can be solved by watching the 'Rocky' saga...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:10 am 
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If the problems on Wall Street and in Detroit have taught us anything, it's that all the money in the world can't cover up crappy management. Like Fraud said, the Bombers won their World Titles with a team that was build from their farm system and augmented with select veterans. The same thing goes with the Patriots in football. They drafted the core of their team and then used a few smart trades and signings to finish their team.

The only team in sports recently that has "bought" their way out of the basement is the Boston Celtics, and that only happened because Kevin McHale put aside his job as the T-Wolves GM for a day and pretended he was still a Celtic when he pulled the trigger on the Garnett deal.


But sports is littered with the bodies of teams that tried to spend their way out of the cellar. The Cowboys have tried adding parts and pieces for most of this decade and they're still mediocre. And then when you look at their best players, they came through the draft. Romo, Ware, Whiten, etc were all draft day picks.


On the flip side you have the Steelers, Spurs, D Rays, Patriots, and Penguins all doing well and all built through the draft.

I say let the Yankees spend. Hell, let the Red Sox spend too for that matter. The Devil Rays are still the best team in that division. The only thing a salary cap is going to do for baseball is that it's going to allow the D Rays to keep guys like Longoria and Price instead of ending up in Yankee Pinstripes or Dodger Blue.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:28 pm 
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The issues affecting small market teams in baseball are bigger than the simplicity of a salary cap or increased revenue-sharing.

1. The player draft needs to be overhauled completely.
A. North American High School players drafted are property of the team for 3 years.
B. Any player outside of North America 16-18 years must enter a special draft, property of team for 4 years.
C. Any player selected in either draft over the age of 18 has their rights held by the team for 3 years.

2. Free Agency and Contracts
A. A Player's Free Agency clock begins in his first season of pro baseball in North America
B. Arbitration after 4th professional season in North America
C. Restricted Free agent after 7th professional season in North America
D. Unrestricted Free Agent after 8th professional season in North America

Teams like the Pirates can spend $5-10 million per year outside of the entry draft to get talent in Latin America, Japan, Korea, etc. and not be competitive because of the unfair advantage agents like Boras have created with the last minute negotiations.

Once the draft and non-draft talent acquisition is balanced for all teams, then baseball will be on the road to recovery with fans like me.


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 Post subject: Re: Yankees get Teixeira
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:03 pm 
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You bring up some excellent points. The player allocation system (both the draft and the posting system) are broken and they need to be fixed. If they're not fixed, baseball will continue losing fans because we're just plain tired of watching the same 5 or 6 teams compete for the World Championship year after year, especially if you're not a fan of one of those teams.

Unless baseball does something to induce a little parity, they'll continue to lose ground to football and maybe even basketball and hockey. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing more hockey fans out there. (Just as an aside here, the birth of the KHL in Russia is going to make things very interesting for hockey fans in the next 5-6 years, maybe we'll even have a true World Championship soon)

In any event, baseball is coming up to a crossroads. Will they say forget the idea of a salary cap and become the Premier League where only those blessed 5-6 teams have a chance of winning, or will they adopt the salary cap and other measures to fix the game and create the possibility of parity. Judging by the track record of baseball officials to this point, I'd say that the Great American Pastime is going to be past it's time by the time the London Olympics roll around.


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