Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:07 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:06 pm
Posts: 3408
Location: Westmoreland County Pennsylvania
I believe, according to the position and the offensive production for these positions, RF, 1B, backup Catcher, and the Bench are all weak links with this Pirate team.

That involves many players, but that's how I feel.

1.) Inge
2.) McKenry
3.) Harrison
4.) Sanchez
5.) Snider
6.) Jones*
7.) Tabata*

*Jones and Tabata would not be on my list if we had stronger bats. I left off Barmes because I think he's an acceptable backup to Mercer.

_________________
Image...You can observe a lot by just watching. -Yogi Berra


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:15 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
How nice is it to have a guy with a .782 OPS on our list of worst hitters? Goes to show how far the offense has come over the past few years.

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:39 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:12 pm
Posts: 1128
The rumored trade is rios and Ramirez from the white sox for mercer polanco and a throw in pitcher... Not to crazy about it but maybe, rios is 31 and Ramirez 30


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:43 pm
Posts: 5003
Location: Omaha, NE via Sioux City, Kansas City, and Chicago
batterup wrote:
The rumored trade is rios and Ramirez from the white sox for mercer polanco and a throw in pitcher... Not to crazy about it but maybe, rios is 31 and Ramirez 30


I like the trade but be prepared to duck! That didn't go over to well around here...

_________________
Texas Tech Red Raiders (3-6) at Iowa State Cyclones (2-7)
Jack Trice Stadium
November 22, 2014 11:00 AM
Fox Sports 1


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:53 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 2126
What a first half the buccos had! Hey? I don't post often and mostly its negative about our offense so naturally I love this topic. Fact is our offense isn't very good and our pitching is stellar. We need something. Don't worry about trading pieces that are important to a great first half. Not everything lasts forever. I'm excited to see what upgrades are made to solitify this offense for a run at a championship.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:57 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
buccosfan77 wrote:
What a first half the buccos had! Hey? I don't post often and mostly its negative about our offense so naturally I love this topic. Fact is our offense isn't very good and our pitching is stellar. We need something. Don't worry about trading pieces that are important to a great first half. Not everything lasts forever. I'm excited to see what upgrades are made to solitify this offense for a run at a championship.


But the offense is fine when it's adjusted for park factors. We'll likely never have a high powered offense because PNC doesn't allow for it.....

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:58 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:09 pm
Posts: 174
Location: smyrna delaware
not a big fan of dealing polanco for a 31 y/o OF who is making over 10 mil per year. next year polanco will be up and making the minimum for several years. If the sox are going to pay rios salary then maybe, but otherwise, I keep the 3 young cheap OF's intact and deal a SP like kingman, and I don't really want Ramirez, rather keep mercer for cheap and save the money for a free agent in the offseason


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:05 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
FWIW, if you adjust the Pirates runs scored at home to reflect if they played their games at Coors Field instead of PNC, they'd be averaging 4.63 runs a game total, good for 2nd in the MLB. Obviously that wouldn't show their true abilities either, it's more an illustration that you can't really judge runs per game in and of itself in judging an offense.

I didn't touch the away runs scored, I looked at it like a diversified portfolio where all the different parks eventually just wound up around 1.000 for a park factor.

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:10 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6292
I hope they don't make that deal...jmho.... :roll: :roll:


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:17 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
Az Bucco fan wrote:
I hope they don't make that deal...jmho.... :roll: :roll:


Mentioned it in another thread but to repeat it here....Polanco was said to have the best BP at the Futures Game by Baseball America.

I'm not against getting Rios/Ramirez and I'm not completely opposed to dealing Polanco, but there's no way I'm giving up that much for Rios/Ramirez or that little for Polanco. Just a terrible trade proposal by Bowden.

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2175
StarlingArcher wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
I hope they don't make that deal...jmho.... :roll: :roll:


Mentioned it in another thread but to repeat it here....Polanco was said to have the best BP at the Futures Game by Baseball America.

I'm not against getting Rios/Ramirez and I'm not completely opposed to dealing Polanco, but there's no way I'm giving up that much for Rios/Ramirez or that little for Polanco. Just a terrible trade proposal by Bowden.

If you read the article, Bowden was just throwing stuff against the wall. That trade will never happen. Heck, I'd rather see them promote Polanco rather than trade him....


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2175
StarlingArcher wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
What a first half the buccos had! Hey? I don't post often and mostly its negative about our offense so naturally I love this topic. Fact is our offense isn't very good and our pitching is stellar. We need something. Don't worry about trading pieces that are important to a great first half. Not everything lasts forever. I'm excited to see what upgrades are made to solitify this offense for a run at a championship.


But the offense is fine when it's adjusted for park factors. We'll likely never have a high powered offense because PNC doesn't allow for it.....

The offense is not fine! They don't have the ability, at least in this last two week stretch or so, to string hits together and score runs. Their luck is starting to even out too. they've had some guys make stellar plays against them to rob them of run producing hits. That has very little to do with the park. I get what you are saying, but realize it saves our pitchers as well. Anyway, I think if Walker and Jones could regain their form we would start scoring more. Walker used to be a doubles machine.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:34 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
Right, it undoubtedly helps the pitchers, but the fact is this team is 19 games above .500 and is outstanding at home.

The offense is better than most that come through PNC.

Again, when adjusting ALL teams for park factors and taking the pitcher spot out (since we can't fix the offense via the pitcher), this offense is 11th in baseball. Not just the National League....all of MLB.

What's the panic? People freak out about the lack of runs, but the run total is artificially suppressed.

It's not nearly as anemic as it's made out.

Edit: Sorry, it's 12th after this last series.....one spot behind the Cincinnati Reds.

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 940
Location: Rochester, New York
PirateParrot wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
What a first half the buccos had! Hey? I don't post often and mostly its negative about our offense so naturally I love this topic. Fact is our offense isn't very good and our pitching is stellar. We need something. Don't worry about trading pieces that are important to a great first half. Not everything lasts forever. I'm excited to see what upgrades are made to solitify this offense for a run at a championship.


But the offense is fine when it's adjusted for park factors. We'll likely never have a high powered offense because PNC doesn't allow for it.....

The offense is not fine! They don't have the ability, at least in this last two week stretch or so, to string hits together and score runs. Their luck is starting to even out too. they've had some guys make stellar plays against them to rob them of run producing hits. That has very little to do with the park. I get what you are saying, but realize it saves our pitchers as well. Anyway, I think if Walker and Jones could regain their form we would start scoring more. Walker used to be a doubles machine.


Not addressing your post directly, PP just more so commenting on the thread.

It doesn't matter if the offense is "fine" or not, there is no excuse whatsoever for a large market team trading a guy like Polanco- you know, the guy who has drawn comparisons to Dave Parker- for Alex F'n Rios. For a small market team, those types of instant gratification type moves are killer. If Huntington trades Polanco (and I don't think he will) the return better be huge or he should be out of a job.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:58 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 2126
StarlingArcher wrote:
buccosfan77 wrote:
What a first half the buccos had! Hey?
But the offense is fine when it's adjusted for park factors. We'll likely never have a high powered offense because PNC doesn't allow for it.....


But I believe this offense can improve. The short porch in right field proves evidence. We need a slugging right fielder. Ibanez? The bench needs an upgrade. Will that come from within the organization? Theres teams out there that our out of it. Lets try to rake them without giving up much. If they want to sell the farm for a few years of control go after Stanton. I'm all for it. This offense on most nights is pathetic. The pitching is why the record is what it is.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:05 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 2126
I don't know what stat anyone is pulling for on offense but to me the only team stat on offense that matters is runs scored. Home or away this bucco team is near the bottom in runs scores in the NL. Has been for years and it's a huge contributor to 20 years of losing. Its the only stat consistent. Look it up. Doesn't matter if it was 3rivers or PNC. Time to anti up and put an offense on the field to help the pitching staff. This is a franchise with a deep system now. Fill the pieces. There are gaping holes.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:13 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:46 am
Posts: 2126
So the bucs organization isn't taking advantage of building an offensive team that takes advantage of the short porch in right field? This team is around last in the league in base on balls. The slugging is down. The team ops is low. How the help to runs scored at Coors. Where are your stats coming from?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:13 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
Or, it's a massive pitcher's park and we have good pitchers which is why the pitching seems good (i.e. we don't have a Kevin Correia type).

Again, if you adjust ONLY our runs scored at home to reflect playing at Coors instead of PNC, we're 2nd in the MLB in runs scored per game. Is the offense any better? Is the pitching any worse?

It's all relative.

PNC gives up 55 HRs per 100 HRs at a neutral ballpark (meaning it doesn't favor pitchers or hitters). It gives up 20 less home runs than the 2nd most unfriendly home run ballpark.

So getting a guy who hits home runs at one park doesn't mean he's going to be able to come to PNC and do the same. It's just a tough park to score runs in because it takes the home run mostly out of the equation.

Edit for links:

Park Factors http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

Offensive Runs Created http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=np&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:21 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:29 am
Posts: 265
StarlingArcher wrote:
But the offense is fine when it's adjusted for park factors. We'll likely never have a high powered offense because PNC doesn't allow for it.....

fine? i think that's a bit of a stretch, no?

Image


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Offense Weak Links
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:23 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Tejas
Try the sOPS+, which would show how we fare relative to the rest of the league in that particular split.

Basically, we produce 14% better at PNC than the average team would. And our abilities are perceived as putrid.

BA is indicative of very little.

_________________
Moneyball Saves.


Last edited by StarlingArcher on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits