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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Cabrera
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:23 am 
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val wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Sounds about right.

I think that there is a major reason James wrote that about Bonds being under appreciated that he didn't take into account. Barry Bonds is one of baseball's all time dicks. He was roundly disliked by his own teammates, for goodness sake. You can find a lot of quotes from people praising Bonds as a ballplayer, but I've never seen a single quote that was complimentary to him as a person.

I think it is really hard to overstate how much Barry Bonds is reviled by the casual sports fan. Ultimately, being a dick matters, esp if we're talking about ballplayers' legacies. Clubhouse matters in public perception too. If you compare Bonds to Ricky Henderson, another egocentric, me-first player in search of records, , Henderson is remembered much more fondly because his teammates, and he had a LOT of them, remember Henderson fondly. It's kind of like the old Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio debate: Joe's only in the conversation mostly because Ted was something of an ass. And I also contend that if Pete Rose wasn't such a prick, say he had Gary Carter's personality, he'd be in the Hall today.

In the court of public opinion, personality matters.

One of the things that players hated about Pete Rose was that he played the game hard all of the time, something that they should have been doing themselves, but they weren't. The nickname "Charlie Hustle" was given to him by a player, and it wasn't meant as a compliment.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Cabrera
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:59 am 
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val wrote:
I think it is really hard to overstate how much Barry Bonds is reviled by the casual sports fan. Ultimately, being a dick matters, esp if we're talking about ballplayers' legacies. Clubhouse matters in public perception too. If you compare Bonds to Ricky Henderson, another egocentric, me-first player in search of records, , Henderson is remembered much more fondly because his teammates, and he had a LOT of them, remember Henderson fondly. It's kind of like the old Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio debate: Joe's only in the conversation mostly because Ted was something of an ass. And I also contend that if Pete Rose wasn't such a prick, say he had Gary Carter's personality, he'd be in the Hall today.


Well, yes there was that, but the number one reason is the steroid controversy. Take that away and the criticism of just his attitude and reputation of the casual fan would be cut down about 90%.


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Cabrera
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:04 pm 
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val wrote:
I think it is really hard to overstate how much Barry Bonds is reviled by the casual sports fan. Ultimately, being a dick matters, esp if we're talking about ballplayers' legacies. Clubhouse matters in public perception too. If you compare Bonds to Ricky Henderson, another egocentric, me-first player in search of records, , Henderson is remembered much more fondly because his teammates, and he had a LOT of them, remember Henderson fondly. It's kind of like the old Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio debate: Joe's only in the conversation mostly because Ted was something of an ass. And I also contend that if Pete Rose wasn't such a prick, say he had Gary Carter's personality, he'd be in the Hall today. In the court of public opinion, personality matters.

i think this depends on how the player is performing - every sf fan knew that bonds was an ass, and that he was juicing, but it didn't seem to matter one iota when he was lighting up the scoreboard and record books. in fact bonds even had legions of apologists when he went after fan favorite jeff kent in the dugout - in short barry could do no wrong. and this was especially true when it came to casual sf fans, they came out in droves, out of the woodwork, sporting bonds jerseys, to check out the sensation that was barry bonds. also, i think bonds perfectly illustrates the tremendous star power impact a single player can have on a franchise, on a city. although sf fans have been treated to two world series wins in the last three years, the excitement and allure during this three-year stretch did not come close to the pandemonium and electricity the city experienced when the giants played in the 2002 world series. the difference was bonds, and the enormous following he attracted, especially when it came to casual baseball fans and non baseball fans. of course history has a way of shifting perspectives and defining legacies, but in the moment, in sf, and most of baseball, bonds was it.


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