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 Post subject: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Fangraphs has been tweeting out some Pirates things recently and today mentioned that the Pirates are getting blasted for having a bad offense, when they're actually 11th in all of baseball in WRC+ (Weighted Runs Created) in terms of non-pitcher players. WRC+ adjusts for park effects (and era effects if you want to check against past teams), and PNC is an extreme pitcher's park, so perhaps that's what's contributing to runs being skewed down, along with the little issue of needing to bat a pitcher at least once every 3 innings.

Now, that's not great. It's still pretty middling. But not quite as bad as it's made to be based on runs per game and I'm still not sure it calls for any sort of move or drastic overhaul because I don't think there's really anybody out there who can compensate for the gigantic park and pitcher spot.

I think right now it's a team that's actually built pretty well for the ballpark. Power lefties, speedy righties, strong pitching and a great defense.

Here's a writeup on what WRC is, it's based off of wOBA which people are pushing to replace OPS. WRC+ just means they adjusted for park effects and different eras.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/wrc/

Edit: When the pitchers are added in, our offense drops to 20th in WRC+. That's astonishing. For reference, since the Giants were brought up as another middling offense yesterday, they were 7th last year in non-pitcher WRC+ and and 9th in overall WRC+. So, our pitchers really suck with the bat :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:57 pm 
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I would give greater credibility to that argument if the strikeout rate wasn't so high. Those outs have little to do with the park.

I also found it interesting this team with what is regarded as a better lineup is averaging fewer runs per game than they did at the same point in 2012. They played in the same park last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Strikeouts are accounted for with wOBA.

Not sure why average runs makes any difference, that could be related to some sort of RISP batting average anomaly or luck of having all of your runners on base with your best hitters up.

Our WRC+ is 20th in the majors....that's pretty darn close to our runs scored average.

Plus, last year we had the benefit of 81 away games to add to our average runs....haven't had that this year. It'll probably lead to a slight inflation from where we are.

Edit: Also, Cutch was having an MVP caliber year still at this point last year. We haven't gotten near that production from any lone individual yet this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:18 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
... So, our pitchers really suck with the bat :lol:


Fransico Lariano scoffs at you... "I'm just getting started!"...

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:19 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
... So, our pitchers really suck with the bat :lol:


Fransico Lariano scoffs at you... "I'm just getting started!"...

ZM


Hahaha I'm pretty sure this :shock: was my face whenever I saw us drop 9 spots just by adding in the pitchers.

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 Post subject: Re: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:22 pm 
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I've never liked analyzing stats by saying "if you exclude__________". Pitchers are part of the game. You can't just exclude them anymore than you
can say "if you exclude Clint Barmes or the right
Fielders."


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 Post subject: Re: Are our offensive "woes" pitcher and park created?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:28 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
I've never liked analyzing stats by saying "if you exclude__________". Pitchers are part of the game. You can't just exclude them anymore than you
can say "if you exclude Clint Barmes or the right
Fielders."


Well sure, but you can't readily fix an offensive struggle at pitcher like you could a position player.

Right now, there isn't a whole lot we could do to upgrade the offense. That's my point.

The 1-8 guys are producing reasonably well, and most/all of them are young enough (Marte, Walker, Alvarez, Tabata) or strong enough defensively (Martin) that you wouldn't want to replace them anyway. Or, in the case of SS, the cost of acquiring one is likely prohibitive.

The massive black hole -- in terms of deserved blame -- is at pitcher, which we simply can't really do anything about.

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